The MQ mag

[txaggie08]

Does anyone have any real info on how this was put together.

Was it a direct drop on in place of the reg, or was the whole valve milled out(I'm looking at pictures now.....)

I emailed Kerry Johnson about this subject, hopefully he will share what he knows with us.

[AirAssault]

Link to it?

[txaggie08]

I only have on picture, that is the one in the PBN thread:

7.M-q valve

The m-q valve is currently out for cockers. Odds are it will never come out for Mags because of the lack of interest there would be. If it did come out for the mag it would work similarly to the cocker version, and allow the mag to have all mechanical components bypassed. This would mean being able to E-Blade a mag with no modification.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/m-a-r-k-7/mellookingrealfly0jp.jpg

[Altec]

If I had to guess on how it works, I'd say its like a inline Aede's.

http://www.zdspb.com/media/tech/animations/aedes5fps.gif

Just my guess. After the first picture showed up, I never heard anything else.


You may be able to find something out from the guy who designed the MQ. He hangs out at PBN.

http://www.pbnation.com/member.php?u=68586

http://www.pbnation.com/member.php?u=20766

[txaggie08]

Functionally I understad it, I want to know how badly they had to jack the valve up to do it(ie did they destroy the front half...)

[Outlaw5]

I believe when this first came out it showed promise in one of the holy grails for the MAG.....air efficiency! The MQ for the cocker is a more efficient valve allowing more shots per tank....this should be the case for the MQ-MAG. Just my :twocents: and what I know from the original thread back in the day. "Outlaw5"

[snoopay700]

I believe when this first came out it showed promise in one of the holy grails for the MAG.....air efficiency! The MQ for the cocker is a more efficient valve allowing more shots per tank....this should be the case for the MQ-MAG. Just my :twocents: and what I know from the original thread back in the day. "Outlaw5"

Efficiency or lower pressure allowing you to shoot deeper into your tank? There is a difference.

[punkncat]

It would be interesting to see how that was pulled off.

[BlueDragonX]

Efficiency or lower pressure allowing you to shoot deeper into your tank? There is a difference.

This is a good point to make because the Mag is actually rather efficient on a per shot basis, but due to the high operating pressure it can't go very deep into the tank.

However, I believe per tank efficiency is a more valuable attribute than per shot efficiency.

[snoopay700]

This is a good point to make because the Mag is actually rather efficient on a per shot basis, but due to the high operating pressure it can't go very deep into the tank.

However, I believe per tank efficiency is a more valuable attribute than per shot efficiency.

Yeah, i just hate the misconception that being able to shoot deep into a tank means it has to be efficient.

[txaggie08]

That's definatly a consideration.


Hey guys, if y'all see a broken MQ floating aorund, please let me know so I can use it for reference.

Hopefully kerry Johnson will respond to me. It would be cool to try this..

[Ruler_Mark]

for this to be viable i would see a whole front sid eof the valve needing to be milled anew, using the stock back valve regulator part. then the mq valve would sit right at the back of the power tube tip.

[snoopay700]

for this to be viable i would see a whole front sid eof the valve needing to be milled anew, using the stock back valve regulator part. then the mq valve would sit right at the back of the power tube tip.

Sort of what i figured, it'd still be hard to do, definitely not for someone that is lacking funds.

[txaggie08]

That wa supposed to be an entirely bolt on, and it most certinly is not using the stock back end of the valve...

[Ruler_Mark]

im just thinking of a cheap way to do it reusing as much as possible

[Thotograph]

I see he's running a inline hpr... and it looks like the back half of the integrated reg was bypassed. Anyone know what the operating pressure is for that prototype? I'd assume it would be close to what the mq for the autococker runs at... but then again I know that mags regulate the pressure down to around 450psi. I was also wondering about how much dwell it would take to fill the air chamber and propel a pb, and if the bolt spring would need to be tweaked (possibly lightened) in order for the MQ to work in a mag?

:wall: To much to think about, and alot I know I don't know.

[txaggie08]

I was hoping someone had seen it, had more info on it, or he would reply to my email..

[senghing27]

:cheers:

[PsychoBaller]

Please take that picture of Mel the DOUCHEBAG, down.

[UThomas]

I talked to him (Kerry) about this when I bought a couple prototype PBX autorockers - he said it never quite worked right and the prototype pictured is in pieces. :(

[BigEvil]

I talked to him (Kerry) about this when I bought a couple prototype PBX autorockers - he said it never quite worked right and the prototype pictured is in pieces. :(

You have PBX cockers? I shot one at an AO day (IIRC in 2004). Man were they are sweet.

I wouldn't buy the whole "They never quite worked right" thing. More than likely, it just needed further development just like everything else. When Mel couldn't get anyone to pony up the money is when Im sure the project died. I have no doubt that they could have gotten one to work.

[UThomas]

Yea - I had two of them and just sold one a couple months ago. Its is pretty slick - I'm actually waiting to get an MQ2 in right now to put in it. Almost no kick at all.

A bad picture but with my Racegun halfblock...
http://home.roadrunner.com/~thomas_mitchell/Pics/PBX_Race.jpg

[txaggie08]

So Kerry got back with me and sent me a link to the patent over at ASP. They actually included a mag-style gun in that application.

It appears that they built and entirely new valve body, everything is scratch, meant to take an AGD bolt system.

Very interesting design, it appears to be nothing more than a hollow tube contining the valve assembly, but I can see why there would be now "quick fix" dropping one into a valve. That being said.....I don't think it would be hard to build a vessel to contain on with a machine lathe. A competent machinist should be able to accomplish it....


Interesting. If I had access to a lathe we might be in buisness LOL

[tymcneer]

Please post the ASP link... Inquiring minds want to know :)

Ty

[Outlaw5]

Good point on the Efficiency piece. i should have been specific as you stated....shooting deeper into the tank and not efficiency of the marker itself. "Outlaw5":wthumpup:

[snoopay700]

Good point on the Efficiency piece. i should have been specific as you stated....shooting deeper into the tank and not efficiency of the marker itself. "Outlaw5":wthumpup:

I've been trying to think of a way to make a really efficient marker, but all i've come up with is the shooting deeper into the tank solution.

[txaggie08]

http://airsoldier.com/~haveblue/tech/patents/20060005823.pdf

Honestly, for intensive purposes, shootingdeeper DOES mean more effeciecant. You are using yur air more effeciantly if your able to get 1500 shots out of the 68ci in a tank than 1000 or less. I mean.....ok it's semantics, maybe "using the air supply more effeciently" is the best term for it.

[snoopay700]

http://airsoldier.com/~haveblue/tech/patents/20060005823.pdf

Honestly, for intensive purposes, shootingdeeper DOES mean more effeciecant. You are using yur air more effeciantly if your able to get 1500 shots out of the 68ci in a tank than 1000 or less. I mean.....ok it's semantics, maybe "using the air supply more effeciently" is the best term for it.

See, i'm trying to think of a way to get the best of both worlds, but like i said, it doesn't seem like it can be done, i'll have to ponder this some more, because i personally think that gas efficiency is better than using it more efficiently, because you can always make it more efficient by making it able to shoot deeper into the tank.

[txaggie08]

It depends on how deep we're talking about.

If your talking the differnce between 500 and 200, yes more effecient between shots is better.

When your talking about the difference between 300 and 1200, I will take deeper into the tank. Expecially when MOST places are not able to fill to 4500psi, especially on the majority of smaller fields. Panther creek, where I work, sits way out in the boonies, and we can't have anything but a big gas unit. we START at 3k and work down. HAlf the time, by Sunday, I couldn't run an RT mag for a full game because we don't have the air to do it.

[Spider]

See, i'm trying to think of a way to get the best of both worlds, but like i said, it doesn't seem like it can be done, i'll have to ponder this some more, because i personally think that gas efficiency is better than using it more efficiently, because you can always make it more efficient by making it able to shoot deeper into the tank.
I play at all day air fields mostly, so getting 1200 rounds over 1000 may save me one trip to the air station all day when it works out.

Have you calculated the efficiency in an energy balance? I haven't done it lately, but it would tell you what the practical limit would be. I wasn't looking at total efficiency, just per shot usage.

Total kinetic energy of 1000 shots @ 280fps vs. total potential energy of 68 ci of 4k psi air? The last numbers I saw for RP Scherer was 3.185 grams/ball (average).

[txaggie08]

I'm afraid the mathmatics behind it are over my head, I'm a history major for a reason ;).
My limit in that discussion will be basic logical thinking, the math is something y'all will have to run.

I guess some of our "wants" are going to be depndant on the situation as well.

[Spider]

I haven't checked the conversions, but this is in the right ballpark:

1) there is about 8.5 lb-ft in one paintball going 280fps.
2) 4k psi in a 68 ci tank is worth 22,667 lb-ft
3) 1k psi in a 68 ci tank is worth 5,667 lb-ft

100% conversion for a 4k to 1k shootdown would get you 2000 rounds. You will never get more than that (and of course you get a lot less).

If I had a conversion for sound dB to energy handy, that definitely needs to come out to get to a lower, more realistic, number.

The other end is to take out the air volume in any rams and valves that gets dumped per shot and take that out of the tank energy available. Probably not much.

[SummaryJudgement]

Yea - I had two of them and just sold one a couple months ago. Its is pretty slick - I'm actually waiting to get an MQ2 in right now to put in it. Almost no kick at all.

A bad picture but with my Racegun halfblock...
http://home.roadrunner.com/~thomas_mitchell/Pics/PBX_Race.jpg

Nice cockers! You gotta love the half/midblock thing!