Egomag - in at the deep end

[Gee Tee]

Hi All,

I started an EgoMag project discussion in my intro thread here..

http://www.pblegion.com/showthread.php?p=24550#post24550

And got some great replies - thanks guys so far :wthumpup:

Anyhow I though I'd better shift it to techy section before it got too involved. So far I've got the parts shown in the photo, and have a pretty good idea how it needs to fit together. Any tips & how to advice from those that have been here before is much appreciated.

Such as...

Best placement for MPA-3 ram and alignment to sear?

What to make MPA-3 piston from?

Will I need to run a QEV on the MPA-3?

Will standard X-valve on/off work better or ULE on/off?

Which board to use - is the standard Ego board ok?

Will I need to run Ego eyes, and if so best way to install/cover them?

My Mag as it stands
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/GeeTee_album/mag1.jpg

The parts collection
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/GeeTee_album/bits1.jpg

Current custom rail - too nice to butcher IMO
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/GeeTee_album/custom-rail.jpg

[robnix]

All my answers are based on the 05 Ego frame I'm using. Answers in quote, comments later.


Best placement for MPA-3 ram and alignment to sear?

If you look down into the ego frame, you'll see that there's a small shelf right behind the trigger. My MPA-3 sits there horizintally with a 90 degree fitting pointing up. The hose can then loop down in the frame to the MPA-3. I set mine in as far forward as it would go, the aired up the valve so the sear would push forward so I could adjust the MPA-3 into position. It now sits aobut 2mm away from the sear and hits the bottom of it.

What to make MPA-3 piston from?

If you already have the MPA-3, get one of the MPA-3 pistons that luke over at http://www.lukescustoms.com sells. If you need the MPA-3, check with cyberave68 here, he has them prebuilt, all you need to do is file the sides down a bit more to get them to fit the frame.
Will I need to run a QEV on the MPA-3?

Not that I've seen.

Will standard X-valve on/off work better or ULE on/off?

You'll definitely want a ULE on/off.

Which board to use - is the standard Ego board ok?

Yes, if you need one, the T-Boards from Scenerio Dreams is the way to go.

Will I need to run Ego eyes, and if so best way to install/cover them?

Mine doesn't use them, the Level 10 works fine if it's tuned properly, haven't chopped yet.



Make sure you use a quality LPR like a Tickler, Outkast, or something from Palmers. Cheap LPR's will not be able to keep up.

Here's my little beastie:

http://www.willenbergs.com/images/mags/egomag/EgoMag07-002.jpg

[Gee Tee]

Thanks for the reply robnix. It was your Egomag article that conviced me to register on PBL and convert my own X-mag. I love that funky purple - really retro and late 80's :cool: What body is that on your gun BTW? I may go for a new anno job on mine too once works done.

I've got a lot of the parts (added photo's now) but will look into the other bits you mentioned. Have you got any photos of yours apart to show MPA3 positioning in frame?

[Altec]

"Palmers Cheap LPR's?" WHAT? :couch:

[robnix]

"Palmers Cheap LPR's?" WHAT? :couch:

I edited to add the PERIOD that I forgot.... :wall:

[robnix]

Thanks for the reply robnix. It was your Egomag article that conviced me to register on PBL and convert my own X-mag. I love that funky purple - really retro and late 80's :cool: What body is that on your gun BTW? I may go for a new anno job on mine too once works done.

I've got a lot of the parts (added photo's now) but will look into the other bits you mentioned. Have you got any photos of yours apart to show MPA3 positioning in frame?


It's a Karta body and rail. And thanks! It was a tough choice on the purple, but people seem to really dig it, and I get to call my EgoMag "The Purple People Eater".

I'll try to take some this weekend, if not I'll definitely have some by next. There was really only one way to fit the MPA3 in there though.

Get lookig at your parts, get the 90 degree fittings that cyberave68 has, you'll really appreciate having them. The LPR you have looks like one that I have that didn't keep up with firing rate, it's been replaced with a micro-rock now.

[Altec]

I edited to add the PERIOD that I forgot.... :wall:


Oh, ok. Scared me a little!


Nice mag BTW.

[Gee Tee]

Well I've been offering the Ego frame up to mag today. Looks like I need to take a lump of the front end to shift frame far enough up the rail. Even so it won't leave much space lengthwise, to give the 1-1.5mm clearance needed between the sear and MPA3? I've put a black mark on frame to indicate where I think end of MPA3 will finish.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/GeeTee_album/frame2.jpg

Looks like MPA3 needs to sit as close to trigger pivot as possible. I think this is the shelf (arrowed) that robnix was referring to? I've worked out that the front grip/body screw will have to go through top of trigger guard.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/GeeTee_album/frame1.jpg

Also the sear seems to hang a long way down in the frame, which will force the MPA3 down I'm aiming for low a contact point? Some photos of others mags mid-build/stripped would be handy before I start work. Not sure if I'll re-drill rear screw hole in frame to pick up with existing position, or simply tap a blind hole further back on rail.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/GeeTee_album/frame3.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/GeeTee_album/frame4.jpg

[robnix]

This is the part where the 90 degree barbs that cyberave68 sells really help a LOT.

Hope this helps:

http://www.willenbergs.com/images/saleitems/feb08/feb-08-em-02-small.JPGhttp://www.willenbergs.com/images/saleitems/feb08/feb-08-em-03-small.JPGhttp://www.willenbergs.com/images/saleitems/feb08/feb-08-em-04-small.JPGhttp://www.willenbergs.com/images/saleitems/feb08/feb-08-em-05-small.JPG

[p8ntbal4me]

I did one of the ego framed mags myself.

I noticed that a few guys have put the MPA-3 in the same spot (for the most part) in the groove thats vertical with the "flats" on the MPA-3. See the picture above? In this picture, there is a left and a right grip screw hole.
The one on the right is the place that you need to look.
To the right of the right most screw hole for the grips is a vertical cut. The hose is rubbing against it in the picture.

Majority of the installs have the back "flats" of the MPA-3 flush with this vertical cut.

In the picture above that Robix posted, the MPA-3 is back more toward the trigger than most of the other mods done.

Most people that have done this mod drilled the grip frame screw hole DIRECTLY in front of the trigger.

If you do this, you need to mill/cut some materal off the front of the frame.

The more you move the MPA-3 TOWARD the trigger, the next EXTERIOR milling/cutting you need to do in the front. This is why Robix's frame looks like he didnt cut the material off the front. I agree with him when he suggested that you get one of Cyberave68's (Erik) 90 degree fittings for the ram. It makes your install alot cleaner and prevents kinks in the hose from the solenoid.

Also,.. when you install your solenoid (if you are going to keep the stock EGO board), place your solenoid between the back of the screen and the side of the battery. Run your solenoid wires a tad longer to. Reason being is you can run the wires from the solenoid port, under the board, down to the LCD, and up between the battery. Makes your internals look that much more clean.

~ P8nt

[Gee Tee]

robnix & p8ntbal4me,

Thanks for the replies and photos guys - a really big help :cheers:

Couple more questions...

On robnix frame - I can't see any grub screws holding the MPA3. How is it retained in position?

What board have to got in there? it looks like you've chopped the top down to clear the sear. I'm hoping I wont have clearance issues on the Ego board but it looks very close on mine.

I've noticed you have the same micro solenoid as me. What sort of dwell time do you need to get the MPA3 to work effectively? The photo's also answered a question thats been bugging me. The 3rd barb's obviously spare as there's no need for a return feed to the MPA3. I guess the solenoid vents wasted air into the grip frame on each cycle, and only a 1 way solenoid would prevent this?

Lastly - is the thread for the frame to body screws 8/32 unc?

[robnix]

...
On robnix frame - I can't see any grub screws holding the MPA3. How is it retained in position?

It's a very tight fit, I had to file it down further from what cyberave68 does to squeexe it in. As it is now, there's really nowhere for it to go.

What board have to got in there? it looks like you've chopped the top down to clear the sear. I'm hoping I wont have clearance issues on the Ego board but it looks very close on mine.

Sceneria Dreams T-Board, it comes like that. You'll be fine, the Ego boards don't have the chip at the top like I do, so you'll have a bit more room for the solenoid.

I've noticed you have the same micro solenoid as me. What sort of dwell time do you need to get the MPA3 to work effectively? The photo's also answered a question thats been bugging me. The 3rd barb's obviously spare as there's no need for a return feed to the MPA3. I guess the solenoid vents wasted air into the grip frame on each cycle, and only a 1 way solenoid would prevent this?

I think I have the dwell down to about 8ms. I could be wrong though. And yes, the third barb is an exhaust port.

Lastly - is the thread for the frame to body screws 8/32 unc?

10/32x1 IIRC, you may need to go a little longer and cut it down.

[Gee Tee]

Thanks robnix - you are a star :cheers:

[Gee Tee]

Welll I've been a busy boy the last 2 weeks, but the EgoMag is up an running and the bits went in really well. I managed to run the LP hose through the foregrip & into the frame for a neater look, and was lucky to find some nylon rod that was a perfect fit on the ram piston. It operates the sear a treat even though it sits a bit further up the frame than I would like. Theres not much room above the board so it'll be hard to shift it much lower down anyway. I didn't bother with a screw in the ram piston, as the nylon is pretty hard and seems to work ok as it is.

I held the ram in place with four 6-32 grub screws, and kept the hose runs as short as possible for a neater look. Had 12bps out of this afternoon with eyes off (none fitted) and sure it'll give more without chopping. It's as easy to shoot fast as my Ego and I'm really chuffed with the result :woohoo:

All I need to do now is a bit of milling on the rail, and then ship the bits away for re-annodising. Thinking of matching it all dust silver to match the Eclipse OOPS at the moment... watch this space :wthumpup:

Thanks for all the help & advice so far guys :hail:

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/GeeTee_album/PICT0007.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/GeeTee_album/PICT0013-1.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/GeeTee_album/PICT0011-1.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/GeeTee_album/PICT0012.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/GeeTee_album/PICT0008.jpg

[FiXeL]

If you need ULE milling on that rail, PM me. I work as a CNC milling operator and i have a program for it. I live in the netherlands, so that's quite near to you. Nice Egomag!! :wthumpup:

[robnix]

Nice job!

[michbich]

Congrats, can't wait to see the finished marker with it's new anno. :wthumpup:

[Gee Tee]

If you need ULE milling on that rail, PM me. I work as a CNC milling operator and i have a program for it. I live in the netherlands, so that's quite near to you. Nice Egomag!! :wthumpup:

Thanks FiXeL i may take you up on that offer. Have you any photo's of milled rail's to give me some idea of finished product, and can you let me have a price as well?

Thanks for the feedback guys. Still not sure on silver dust anno - possibly a bit lame... may go for something bolder like blue or yellow/gold. Will have a look at gallery for some inspiration ;)

[michbich]

http://www.pblegion.com/showthread.php?t=1301&highlight=fixel

Looks like some great milling.:wthumpup:

[Gee Tee]

Sure looks like a good job :clap:

[FiXeL]

I have access to a CNC mill because of my work, and am allowed to do some private jobs if the machine isnt used. I've did a few rails, and was planning to do a classic rail like yours. Due to the fact i dont have a mag to stick it on, i never did. I've had the rail at work for months, but never got to milling it. But i would gladly ULE your rail, or mill mine and send it to you.

I'm not doing this for the money, but for the interest i have in paintball and CNC milling. Last week i have been tinkering with a universal program to mill half spheres, programmed with variable Q-parameters to make it any size, amount of cuts, and feeds. Just the geek side of me, and i sucked at math at school. :rolleyes:

[Gee Tee]

Cheers buddy - I'll drop you a PM and see if we can work something out ;)

[Gee Tee]

Well I broke out the black & decker again this evening, and managed to install some eyes in the Egomag. My drilling was a little bit out but the eyes work ok so it obviously isn't that critical. Used a set of Dm7 eyes spliced to an Ego style 4pin connector, and took a while to suss correct way to wire them in. Still have to channel and drill rail to route wires into frame, and sort eye covers - but at least they are in and working fine.

I drilled the 3mm holes slightly off centre - towards rear of breech to avoid the ball detent on one side, but they still detect ball ok. I've also positioned them nearer bottom of breech to avoid early detection and potential chops.

My original plan was to use Ego eyes but they are square, so it would have needed fancy milling around the eye holes. The DM7 eyed were a simpler install, but made the wiring a little more awkward. Ripped a couple of pots through on Ramp 2 setting tonight, and it hit 15bps with no chops or stutters.

Will use it for real at a walk-on Sunday :evillaugh:

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/GeeTee_album/eye3.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/GeeTee_album/eye2-1.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/GeeTee_album/eye5.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/GeeTee_album/eye1-1.jpg

[Ryknow]

Makes me want mine done even more... VERY nice Gee Tee.

[Gee Tee]

Thanks - I'll let you know how it runs on Sunday

How's your own Egomag build coming along?

[Ryknow]

Its coming along slowly but surely. Ive got almost all the parts I need for the raw gun. Have my Ego frame, ULE body, vert ASA, etc. Just lacking a X-valve/E-mag valve/ReTro Valve. After that its off to Luke and Loguzzzz to get all the internal work done as well as eye installation and some one off eye covers. I hope to have it done in 2-3 weeks... hope being the important word here.

Btw, how did you do the wiring for the DM eyes? I didnt even think about the ego eyes being square... Im opting for eyes on mine instead of LX. Since my level 10 has chopped on me before, but I haven't ever had break beam eyes fail on me.

[Gee Tee]

The DM7 eyes have a 3 pin connecter, with the 2 black wires spliced to one pin. I just cut the 4 wires before the splice, and wired them to a 4 pin Ego style connecter. Took two attempts to establish which eye wire went where, but they are working ok now. LMK when you get that far and I'll let you have the details.

The tiny pins are a PITA to crimp without correct tool, but this tool costs over £100 in the UK! I improvised with a set of thin nose pliers but it took a lot of patience and swearing :wall:

I'm sure I've spotted a few X Valve/RT valves for sale in the BST section?

Good luck :wthumpup:

[Ryknow]

Holy poop... 100 pounds?! Thats just short of 200 bucks.. agh.. Ill send an e-mail to luke and make sure he knows that the eye holes hes drilling are square lol.

[Gee Tee]

It's really not impossible to do with pliers, and the DM7 eyes were an easier install than the Ego ones IMO. I've done several now - including replacement eblade eye kits & it's worth the effort. The hole for the eyes is still round (2mm) but they need a square pocket milled around them for body of the eye to sit in.

See my other photos in this thread....

http://www.pblegion.com/showthread.php?t=1795

[Gee Tee]

Well.... played 5 or 6 game on sunday and it ran really well. No chops and really accurate too - only downside is gas consumption. I was only running a 68ci 3000psi rig & ran out of air completely in one game. It went really suddenly too - one minute I'm rattling off shots & then Pffft... Pffft... nothing. Guess I'm getting about 5-600 shots to around 1500psi drop. Will have to run a 4.5K rig next time to give me a bit more reserve, as the X valve needs at least 800psi to cycle properly.

Had a few issues with the gun not firing when 1st aired up, but I think valve body had worked loose so sear wasn't tripping properly. Got dwell at 6.5ms and the noid triggers fine so I'll leave it at that. Just need to finish it off (eye covers) and sort the annodising out :banana:

[Gee Tee]

Quick update - had a few more games on the Egomag. Swapped the standard 1:08 Ego board for a Lucky fitted with Spitfire chip. Had one of these on my timmy for a while and was impressed by ease of set-up & multitude of options. Seems to gave cured the "failing to fire after standing idle" problem, so maybe original board had issues? It also has a microswitch operated trigger rather than Ego 05's standard optical one, which I've always much preferred TBH :coolshades:

Anyway... now I've experimented with ramped and higher uncapped ROF, I'm beginning to notice it hit's a wall at around 17bps. I suspect it's suffering air starvation to the clippard ram, due to the mini LPR I have fitted. Looks like I'll have to source a quality LPR like a Tickler, Outkast, Palmers etc - as recommended by Robnix earlier in this thread.

Anyone got one for sale?

[longi]

Oh my God no! I can feel another project coming on!! My poor girlfriend! My pocket is starting to hurt!!

[longi]

Hey GeeTee, whereabouts do live in the UK?

[Gee Tee]

Hi longi,

I'm down in Kent -Dartford area

Nice to meet another UK baller on here :wthumpup:

[Gee Tee]

Egomag's been on a back burner for a bit

Just picked this up on ebay - anyone using one on here?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140264045472&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=004

Hoping it'll cure the ROF issue above :quickdraw:

[mecher50]

How is that solenoid working out for you? Working on a pm6 framed mag and was planning on using that noid.

[Gee Tee]

Hi mecher50,

The Egomag's been on the "things to do" list for while now :rolleyes:

Got rail back from milling to take some eye covers a few months back, but have not found time to make the covers yet, or drill & tap rail to fix them. I had it running ok with the micro-rock early this year, and the better LP air flow seemed to fix stutter at high ROF. I think I also had clippard ram's piston set too far back from the sear, so superglued a plastic 1mm thick pad to the end. This seemed to help trigger response and speed up ROF.

I've had a reliable 13bps out of Egomag so far, but have not had time to clock it since the latest mods. As soon as I get it rebuilt & tested prior to sending out for annodise I'll post an update.