Custom Pneu Valve? Need Pics!

[BlueDragonX]

Hey guys, a comment made in another thread got me thinking about trying to build a custom valve for pneumag conversions that would replace the MSV-2.

My goals for this little project are simple:
-The valve should mount to the standard Intelliframe mounting holes.
-It should have the air input is at the bottom and the output is at the top.
-The return force of the plunger should be, in some way, adjustable.

So, I'm looking for good pictures of the internals of an MSV-2, in case anyone has taken them apart. I imagine it's a pretty simple design. From pictures it looks like the plunger, spring, etc is held in by a threaded cap on the back.

We'll see what I can come up with in the meantime...

[snoopay700]

It's a three way essentially, only instead of having 3 orings and three paths, it has two of each.

[BlueDragonX]

Simple plunger with o-rings on it, then?

[p8ntbal4me]

As long as you make it as one piece and dont put a ram or piston into it your okay.

I wouldnt want to see some C&D letters come across your mail box:rolleyes:

~ P8nt

PS: this would be a cool project. Keep posting in here. I have some ideas but I have no know how on what specific parts to get to do the shaft/o-ring setup. The block would be a piece of cake once you get the parts.

[BlueDragonX]

No, it wouldn't be a one piece drop in by any means. It would just be an adjustable return air valve. Very multipurpose. It would just happen to have mounting holes in the right spot for Intelliframes :D

[BlueDragonX]

Here's a question, about how much pressure does it take to trip the sear (reliably) in a pneumag?

[snoopay700]

Here's a question, about how much pressure does it take to trip the sear (reliably) in a pneumag?

From what i've read i think most people use about 70-90 psi i think, could be wrong though.

[BlueDragonX]

Ok, for trigger pressure...

The way I see it there is a compromise between lightness of trigger pull and the ability of the trigger to reset itself. Somewhere in there is the sweet spot. This sweet spot is, of course, different for different people...

Now, most people leave the lever on the MSV-2 in order to make the trigger pull easier. This compromises the ability of the MSV-2 to reset itself as it has to work harder against the trigger. On the other hand, if you remove the lever it's harder to pull the trigger but the MSV-2 has an easier time of resetting itself.

It's easy to design the valve such that the return pressure on the pin changes. You just build in the ability to adjust the spring pressure pushing on the plunger with an allen key. Or, alternatively, you could use magnets internal to the valve, but that's more bulky and I don't think there would be quite as much adjustability. This adjustability would actually remove the need for the lever.

Changing the output port to the top is also simplistic. If I understand the design of the MSV-2, you could actually just drill and tap a new hole for that purpose and seal the old one.

Anywho, picatures!

http://www.fatalmachine.org/images/paintball/design/pneuvalve1.JPG

K, the first two are an MSV-2 in the closed and open positions. The third is essentially the same thing with one port flipped. It's been extended to be able to adjust the tension on the spring. The fourth is another type of valve that I don't like due to the inability to properly seal it the way it's shown. my weak attempt to eliminate o-ring friction, but whatever :sticktongue:

[longi]

From what i've read i think most people use about 70-90 psi i think, could be wrong though.
I belive it is indeed around that mark for the Emag/RT on/off. For the ULT it's around 46-60 psi.

[Iceman]

If I understand the design of the MSV-2, you could actually just drill and tap a new hole for that purpose and seal the old one.


You know... I almost did exactly that when I was building my pneumag. At the last minute, though, I ended up changing the design slightly so that my input and output came from the top, so the whole idea became counterproductive. However, for internal LPRs, this would rock.

[Mechanic79]

Pics of the internal msv-2

UPDATE: DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT assemble the MSV-2 in this order! look at PAPA SMURF's picture below for the proper installation order!
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x70/mechanic79/DSC01751.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x70/mechanic79/DSC01749.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x70/mechanic79/DSC01748.jpg

[Papa_Smurf]

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/papa_smurf_ao/pm02.jpg

[Papa_Smurf]

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/papa_smurf_ao/dwhairmu3.png

[Papa_Smurf]

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/papa_smurf_ao/side1.jpg

[mongoose]

i remember seeing that on ebay...went for over $100

[Papa_Smurf]

i remember seeing that on ebay...went for over $100

Yeah, zap made it.
It's just a msv and mpa in one.

[BlueDragonX]

Thanks papa_smurf & Mechanic79, that'll help some. Might be able to build it using the MSV-2 internals like that integrated valve/ram, too.

[Papa_Smurf]

Thanks papa_smurf & Mechanic79, that'll help some. Might be able to build it using the MSV-2 internals like that integrated valve/ram, too.

I'll buy a few.:oneear:

[Mechanic79]

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/papa_smurf_ao/pm02.jpg

well Papa Smurf, thanks for providing this picture. I now see I had the pin and spring in the wrong order!!! compare my pics to yours.

Thank you everyone else for thinking I had reassembled the MSV-2 properly! (me):slap:(all of you)
I used teflon tape to seal the brass screw.

I will remember my blunder always and forever.

I do think the magnet incorporated in the msv-2 or similar design would be very nice!

This is why I don't build anything and leave it to the talented. ^_^
Thank you all for watching this drama

[BlueDragonX]

Haha, that's ok Mechanic. I looked at yours for a couple minutes and pondered how it was supposed to work with the pin in that direction, then saw how it was oriented in papa_smurf's picture, that made more sense, lol.

I don't think, for this design at least, there would be much difference in using a spring or a magnet. The spring would be cheaper and fit inside of the valve housing better anyways.

This is only because I'd be using the repelling force of the magnets to close the valve. If I were to somehow use the attractive force then that would be something else entirely, as it inverts the force curve. But I don't think that would accomplish what I want, so it's a moot point.

Now I need an Intelliframe, SolidWorks (I can't seem to find my copy...) and an MSV-2.

[BlueDragonX]

Oh, by the way, here's that patent at Google:
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT6990971

Instead of a plunger and o-ring, they actually use a ball-bearing check valve which is opened by the plunger which is of a smaller diameter. Similar to my fourth picture but with a ball instead of a round piece and the plunger isn't attached. I have a drawing around here which is closer to that. My goal with that drawing was to set it up so that the plunger was not internal to the valve...leaked anyway, lol.

[BlueDragonX]

Oh, yeah, where do you people get your MSV-2's from?

[mongoose]

i get all mine from Cyberave68. he sells a complete kit

[Dirge]

Yeah, zap made it.
It's just a msv and mpa in one.

That person would have been me. It is as simple as it looks and it works fine. Trigger weight can be a bit heavy though very crisp even with a ULT. Maybe due to the lack of leverage (or me). I find the msv/mpa combo to has a better trigger feel. Could be just me though......