Custom Barrel Boring

[Grelvire]

Looking for someone who can bore out a End Games, Inc. Barrel to accept freak inserts, I used my calipers and the outer wall is the same as a phantom, so is anyone able to bore my barrel for freak inserts?

let me if you can or if you know someone who can...Thanks

[tymcneer]

Grelvire, Consider dropping Altec a PM. He has a lathe, but I'm not sure if it is big enough to do the work you need. If he doesn't have a boring bar, have him check with me... I might have a couple of extras.

Ty

[Stayhuge]

check the dealers thread on AO. There was someone over there that did that type of work:wthumpup:

[Whee McGee]

check the dealers thread on AO. There was someone over there that did that type of work:wthumpup:

They're currently having issues with him on his work:ohthedrama:

I was hoping he'd do it for me too, oh well.

[Stayhuge]

They're currently having issues with him on his work:ohthedrama:

I was hoping he'd do it for me too, oh well.

Oh, didn't know that. :mad:

[Ruler_Mark]

he bascially °°°°ed thotograph. he doesnt even test them prior to shipping. He first milled his barrel crooked. mailed it then made thotograph pay to mail it back to get it 'fixed' when it was the millers fault firstly. The miller just milled it straight letting the insert wobble in the back. The back is a 1 of 1 to his gun film dipped so its not like thotograph can just get a new back. also he scuffed part of the exterior of the barrel with his tooling. I personally would avoid this guy :twocents:


Also the guy used thotographs back in a picture as part of a 'success' story/pic

[Altec]

My lathe will fit it, but I've never done one.


I know Twinky on Phantom Owners does them.

http://idriders.com/ThePhog/index.php?PHPSESSID=35f6bf502af04147da54362903768f 40&board=5.0

[tymcneer]

Altec, we need to get you some test scrap, and let you practice... It is a worthwhile skill to have...

Catch me via PM or phone, and we'll discuss it.

Ty

[Altec]

I do have some barrels to play with. I got two .693" barrels I've been wanting to make use freak inserts.

This may be a excuse to buy a boring bar. :clap:

[warpedmephisto]

Hmm... my lathe could fit a barrel as well, but I've never tried it. Maybe I should try out a scrap barrel. I've also heard of just using a reamer and going for it. That'd be a lot quicker and give a better finish, but I don't think my little lathe could handle that. I still might give it a try though. How long is a Freak insert? Any need for o-ring grooves or anything?

[Altec]

My freak inserts measure about 5" 1/16".


I'm not sure about a reamer. Thats a lot of metal to take off. Maybe a tapered reamer, then a straight one could work.

I'm really tempted to grab a 3/4" drill bit and see what happens. See how straight it cuts. Could be a interesting learning experience at least.

[tymcneer]

DO NOT try the 3/4" bit trick! It will wander, and make a mess! The reason you need a boring bar is that deep drilling a straight, CONCENTRIC hole is difficult! The boring bar will allow you to machine it correctly.

I have a couple in my storage, but you can ask Redic... it might take a while to get to them. I'd be more than happy to allow you to use one of them for as long as you want. You might have to machine an appropriate mount for the bar on your lathe, though.

Ty

[Treadstone]

The guy on AO did my End Game some time back with good results.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d31/treadstone548/th_stuff-004.jpg (http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d31/treadstone548/stuff-004.jpg)http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d31/treadstone548/th_stuff-003.jpg (http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d31/treadstone548/stuff-003.jpg)
Seems his issue is more with resolving his mistakes than his workmanship. Eventually something will go wrong, its all in how you correct your mistakes that define you. End Games are easliy obtainable so I would feel confident if an error occured that he could replace it as opposed to a one off barrel. The only issue I have found with the EG is that it is still a .688 bore so the inserts won't help with large bore paint.

[ta2maki]

I think mongo is able to do this as well, he may be busy with the redux though.

http://www.desertduckdd68.com/7209.html

[michbich]

If you do use a boring bar, make sure you are dead on and that the barrel is turning concentric. Boring bars don't follow the hole, they make there own way. Using a reamer, it will follow the pre-existing hole.

[Altec]

So if I wanted to buy a reamer, and give it a try, how would I? Do I treat it like a normal drill? Do I use a few, raising the size as I go?

[michbich]

If i'm not mistaken, the material to be removed should be equal to arround 5% of the reamer. If i remember correctly, but not 100% sure.

Keep in mind the end of the reamer, It must be flush to prevent having a gap between the barrel and the insert.

[Altec]

So thats .0375? So it would most likely take three reamers. A undersized one, a 3/4" one, and a 3/4" with a flat face?

[michbich]

I don't think it would be cost effective to buy 3 reamers for one use. But if you really want to do it yourself and not pay to get it done...

If it were me: I would remove the excess with a boring bar (needs to be very rigid if it sticks out long) and finish with a reamer. Finishing with the boring bar is also a possibility since you're already set-up for it and indicated.

Don't forget, indicating the outside of the barrel doesn't mean that the inside will be concentric. Don't assume they are both concentric. As the machinist saying, if you assume, you make an °°° of you and me. Hope you practice first though, getting the inside of the barrel to turn concentric on all it's lenght is crucial. If you bore it with a unconcentric turning part, you will get a tappered effect.

My rule about pretty much anything in life: take your time, you'll finish faster

[tymcneer]

There are adjustable reamers like this one:

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=1699915&PMT4NO=37100413

This *might* do what you want, but I think that it is more of a PITA than just using a boring bar.

Ty

[warpedmephisto]

Well I'm out. My lathe thru-bore is just under what would eat up most barrels so I can't even choke up on them correctly. I chucked up a test barrel just to see what I could dial it in at with a 4-jaw chuck (with the barrel end about 9 inches away from the chuck) and got it to within about 2 thou concentricity, but I couldn't (read: I'm tired and want to go to sleep) get it much more past that. Plus I can already imagine the chatter with the boring bar sticking out that far plus all that barrel length. Ehh... maybe I'll give it a shot with a junker barrel someday.

[tymcneer]

Warpedmephisto... You need to build/buy a steady rest. Looks something like this

http://www.steadyrest.de/img/riesenlynette-startseite.jpg

The base bolts to the ways of the lathe, and the pin looking things touch the work piece and keep it from chattering.

Ty

[warpedmephisto]

I've got one, just didn't think to put it on last night. I may play around more with that in a few days...

[tymcneer]

Cool... I have to fabricate one for my lathe, as I don't believe that anyone makes one for the OLD Craftsman 6" lathes. I'm probably going to make it using roller blade wheels, so the tool doesn't mar the finish of the piece being machined.

Ty

[Mechanic79]

I received my 7 barrels back from ojhspyro89 on AO.

All my barrels worked out but they were also machined on his newer equipment.

I'm not recommending anyone to use any one. just stating the facts that obtain to me only :)

[warpedmephisto]

Ty - that's a cool thought. One of my concerns was the bronze inserts making rub/wear marks on the barrel, but some type of rubber wheel would solve that. I was thinking of slotting them and install small bearings, but even then the hardened races would cause wear on the work while it spins. Maybe some small brass wheels... Hmm...

[tymcneer]

The brass will also leave marks... :(

The reason I came to the roller blade wheel conclusion is that the wheels are cheap, come with bearings, are ureathane(sp?), and did I mention cheap?

The hardest part would be creating the mechanism to support them. I was thinking about an old, large three jaw, self centering chuck. Drill and tap the jaws to allow the wheels to be bolted to them, and then all I have to do is create the mounting bracket. You could them tighten up the wheels to make sure the piece won't shift. If you are feeling up to it, drill the holes on a slight angle to make the wheels press the piece bak toward the lathe chuck and minimize the chances of a piece walking out and getting damaged...

Ty

[michbich]

When you speak of a steady rest with roller blade wheels, do you plan on using the rubber as well or you're only going to use the bearings? Wouldn't it make it hard to keep centered if you keep the wheels intact?

[tymcneer]

The wheels are fairly hard... I suspect that extremely heavy passes would be impossible, but then again, I have a little tiny lathe, therefore a heavy pass is impossible, anyway. I suppose that this might not work on a 10" or 12" lathe, but that is kind of up to the operator to figure out whether this possible solution would work for their situation.

I was planning to use the wheels intact. Someone else can probably locate something better, but I am cheap. As long as it works correctly, I'll use it.

Ty

[michbich]

I suppose you shouldn't run into problems. I was concerned about getting it centered and keeping it that way if you planned on boring a barrel.

Damn i miss the machineshop world. There isn't day that goes by without wondering if i made the right choice to change career. Worst of all, i pass in front of the tiny university's shop everyday.

Now during my summers, i have to choose between paintball with a 9-5 job or machineshop with double the salary but without any free time to play. I choose paintball.

[tymcneer]

I too am worried about the centering issue... That was the idea behind the 3 jaw self centering chuck... As you tighten the chuck, it would bring the wheels together, and produce a repeatable centering job.

All of this is just conjecture at the moment, though, as I have no plans to bore any barrels, right now. ;)

Ty