New "Woodsball" Mini

[bryceeden]

The BT TM-7™ utilizes Mini™ Technology to inflict maximum force from a marker of minimal size. Don’t be fooled by the size of the TM-7’s exterior; it can hang with the big boys and is by no means a lightweight. Once you hold one and pull the trigger, you won’t want to put it down. Its lightweight, yet durable construction is perfect for close quarters or long-range combat. This is the marker that just may have people rethink the way they looked at Mil-Sim paintball markers.
Features


http://1.1.1.1/bmi/www.btpaintball.com/images/products/product_tm7.png

* Mini™ Technology Inside
* Shift-On-The-Fly, 4-Position Mode Switch
* Multiple, Extensive Firing Modes Including Semi/Burst/Full-Auto
* Multiple Picatinny Rails Allow For Extra Accessories
* Adjustable, Multi-Position Stock
* Collapsible/Adjustable Front Grip
* Low Pressure Operation
* No External Hoses; Internal Airline Operation
* Additional Modes: NPPL/PSP/NXL/Millennium
* Universal Mini™-Style Barrel Threads





I've no clue yet on price, my new KEE rep hasn't given me much info on this. I'm hoping to find out more by this afternoon.

[Moose]

thats not really that bad looking...


Add my little 22ci HP tank under it and and a full hopper, has some cool factor too it..




Mini-Moose likes it...:D

[bryceeden]

thats not really that bad looking...


Add my little 22ci HP tank under it and and a full hopper, has some cool factor too it..




Mini-Moose likes it...:D

Its bigger than I thought.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=35891475

Should have one in stock in about 3 weeks. Still no official word on price, hopefully know Monday.



Also did my Pic stop working? I can't see it any more.

[p8ntball72]

"Shift-On-The-Fly, 4-Position Mode Switch"
can this "switch" be locked?
If not this is the worst "feature" that could of ever been developed.

What nationality insured promoter or "woodsball" field allows a marker to switch modes "on the fly" with no tools?

I absolutely hate the companies that are "inventing" this crap with TOTAL disregard for ASTM SAFETY STANDARDS and Insurance Protection plans.

I instantly relate this back to the days that tournament promoters could not enforce their ROF rules so they took on a "cant beat them" attitude... where did that lead Tournament play?.. in the toilet.

So now you want to come destroy recreational woods play... what a bunch of °°°°°°s :wall:

[Moose]

Hey bud, lets relax a bit till we get all the info...


"Additional Modes: NPPL/PSP/NXL/Millennium"

if it has those modes built in, then the switch would have to be lockable also...but I'll wait till I see it in person before I make any further rash generalizations..

[B-Pow]

Hey bud, lets relax a bit till we get all the info...


"Additional Modes: NPPL/PSP/NXL/Millennium"

if it has those modes built in, then the switch would have to be lockable also...but I'll wait till I see it in person before I make any further rash generalizations..

The internet exists for rash generalizations.

[bryceeden]

The internet exists for rash generalizations.

This is true.

[Desega]

Wow. Anger seems to ooze from this thread, and it's only 7 posts in. :D

[Moose]

Anger leads to the dark side... We have cookies....

[MournBlade]

mmmm Cookies
:woohoo:

[BlueDragonX]

The internet exists for rash generalizations.

lol, sigged

[Iceman]

I'm angry too.... but more because I can't see the pics and can't find it anywhere else on the net. :mad:



EDIT: Nevermind..... I present for your viewing pleasure...
http://www.btpaintball.com/images/products/product_tm7.png

[mostpeople]

*ahhaaghadfhadfg*

sorry I just threw up a little bit.. :rofl2:

[Iceman]

*ahhaaghadfhadfg*

sorry I just threw up a little bit.. :rofl2:

Yeah.... not my cut of tea either.

I'm sure it will have a big market somewhere, though. Especially since it's not based on a tippmann.

[Danny Havoc]

Nice look for a milsim, integrated stock is a nice touch, fold down foregrip is kind of neat. Probably the most realistic of the wannabe real guns. If I was a woodsballer, I'd be all over it. As I'm not, my Marq is enough for me. It touches me at night.

[Desega]

my Marq is enough for me. It touches me at night.

:eek:

[mostpeople]

:eek:

His marq touches me at night too...


... it doesn't touch you?

[Gee Tee]

That's one of the most realistic looking markers I've ever seen

Not one you'd wanna leave unbagged on the back seat of your car :ohgeez:

[Desega]

His marq touches me at night too...


... it doesn't touch you?

:eek::mudbug::eek:

[tsp8ntball]

real scary...sad, I hate seeing this happen to paintball


Mick
www.tsquarepaintball.blogspot.com

[Z-man]

Afterthought pre-post. This is borderline off topic. This is a thread to announce and discuss this particular marker. If this post takes things off too far I'll make a new thread out of it if I can figure out how to do that.

real scary...sad, I hate seeing this happen to paintball

My personal opinion as well. One of the reasons (admittedly a smaller one) I like the sport is that like the original "Super Soaker" water pistols, they DIDN'T try to imitate real guns.

Why would I dislike that?

Well you could argue that playing with squirt guns, airsoft, paintball or even pop guns that look like real firearms desensitized kids and does not teach them to use the real things (should they get their hands on them) with the proper care and respect.

You could argue that it brings to like the whole "simulate war and killing" thing that people aversed to our sport love to argue. That kids will not only think that killing is ok and fun but that they will be more likely to go out and do it in real life.

You could even argue that it's just a waste of money and weight. You start with a paintball marker that is designed (to greater and lesser degrees) to fulfill the wants/needs (hint these are 2 words that you would be wise to argue with me over if you don't like this claim) of the player. Real fire arms have different problems they are designed around. Things like kick. The day I find a paintball marker that has the kick of even a measly 9mm is the day I'll endorse a shoulder stock. The day that paintball markers can hit a tin can even 50 yards away when sighted and clamped to a table I'll buy a scope. Different tools (paintball markers and firearms) with different problems to solve hence the differences in design.

But I don't think those reasons either legitimate or even compelling reasons enough in themselves to say that the mill-sim fashion should be reconsidered. I'll tell you why I dislike it.

At the heart of matter I think it is irresponsible. Specifically to our law enforcement. How so?

Let's ignore the fact that in our current far more tolerant, broadminded and highly educated society it is common news for children to whip out the Glock and terminate (or try to) a number of their schoolmates. As common is hearing about a big wildfire somewhere in the country. (side note: people seems to have trouble identifying a foundational tool I use in writing called sarcasm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm).)

People have and will always misuse things. Kids (and adults too) don't think things through when they act (hence why we call them children). People misuse things out of stupidity, anger, and to show off.

Our law enforcement has an increasingly crappy job (in my opinion). They are there to protect us and to enforce the county, state and federal laws that we live by. More and more it seems they are being called upon to protect us from each other (that is a whole different tangent).

If a cop sees a kid/adult running around carrying something that looks like an MP5, a Glock, an AK-47 whatever you decide is a good example, he has to make a decision. Is he really carrying a weapon? Is he a threat to the people around that might have to shot or worse killed? Now he's aiming it at a person on a bicycle. What should he do?

Now argue all you want about how the officer can call out for the person to stop and put the "gun" down, or he can see a hopper or hear the different sound of a marker firing vs a firearm, but I ask you 2 things.

1- How does taking the time to make an airsoft/paintball/water gun look like a real fire arm aid you the player over one that looks like say, a Nike shoe (DM4/5/6/7/8)? You might like the LOOKS or might like the playing SWAT part but beyond the superficial, does any of it really help in any conceivable way?

2-How does making an airsoft/paintball/water gun look like a real fire arm aid our law enforcement (heck even our community)?

"oh Zak, come on you think that 15 year old kid over there is really running around with a real gun? We are living in a society here!"

Heck ya he might be! And what's worse is that they get shot by our police who have to make that crappy decision in protecting us.

There are reasons to cite why we should make airsoft/paintball/water guns look like a real fire arms.
-Looks cool!
-Fun for scenario or role playing games like re-enactments of battles.
-Training for law enforcement or military

None of them add up to more than "wouldn't it be cool" (for the sake of being cool). The worse you could say about not getting to run around with a Tippmann MP5 is the same thing you would say about not getting to drive around in a Hummer with a dummy 50 cal on the roof. As for training, that is fine, but I seriously doubt the people is see with these things are training or in law enforcement or the military.

The reasons to not make airsoft/paintball/water guns look like a real fire arms have far greater weight and significance.

It only makes it harder for our law enforcement and that in my opinion is reason enough.

[FiXeL]

Z-man has a point. We don't need those mil-sim markers but somehow it has become more and more a trend these days with the woodsballing public. And unfortunatly, i also have fallen very low. Since last month i own a X7.

Over here in the netherlands these markers are prohibited, but easily obtainable since there are no checks on packages shipped within the european union. So if i wanted something like that, i could get it from a shop in another EU country. But also some dutch shops sell these guns under the counter with a few tricks.

Like the X7. Looks like a firearm, but if you remove the mag and front guard it looks less intimidating. So they sell you the marker and for 1 euro extra you get the mag and the grip. I somehow find dealings like this disturbing, because you never know what the end user is going to do with it, and the shops are selling illegal guns willingly. We've also had incidents here with people shooting up the neighbourhood (granted, paintball is not that popular over here) and even an incident where 4 guys were talked out of their car by a bunch of cops with pulled guns. Now over here firearms are not easy to obtain for your regular john, so when cops pull out their guns they mean buisness.

Why? Because one of the passengers decided to fit his newly bought barrel while driving. Somebody saw this and sure enough, all hell breaks loose. Most people over here can't even distinguish a paintball marker from a firearm, so i find it very obvious that the police reacted this way. :appl:
Either way, it was a stupid thing to do. But also carrying a paintball marker in public is one of those stupid things, and over here its forbidden even for those shiny electro spaceguns.

I'm not in favor for mil-sim markers, but people should take responcibility when it comes to weapons. (yes its a weapon, any way you slice it) Carrying one in public is not one of them. Isnt that illegal in the US?

[Z-man]

Now see the worst part is that for the majority of the people out there who would own or do own mil-sim setups, this is not really an issue. Most people treat these markers as though they are fire arms and with the same discretion when handling / brandishing them in public.

But it's rarely the majority that ruins something for the whole, it's more often that small group of people; the minority. They are the ones who go off and hold up a gas station, who terrorize a neighborhood for a good laugh or point it at drivers as they pass them in their car.

Fixel I would be very surprised if you did not handle that marker with the utmost care and concern for what you did with it. But you are not the problem.

Since it would be insanely complex and any system setup could still be exploited it's not reasonable to suggest some sort of screening system to decide who is smart enough to have one and who isn't (look at gun control... only honest people follow it).

You can still tailor a paintball marker to fit scenario play style. Just because you don't have a plastic magazine, silencer/rain guard, or a shoulder stock does not mean you could not have it anoed/painted/stickered in camo or drab colors to help it blend into the landscape. If you really do play woodsball games where you sneak around from place to place, heck throw on some camo, even a gillie suit if you want. Those aspects do not seem to cause problems like replicating the look of real guns has caused.

PS- Fixel I don't care how much or little people argue about that SovieMag being mil-sim you are not allowed to sell that thing. It is far too beautiful.

[FiXeL]

Selling? A marker i have put so much time in, kept me stressed for 6 months while it was away for anno, and looking so darn good? I'd rather sell one of my kidneys before i sell the sovietmag!

With this one it was never a attempt to replicate a existing firearm. Sure it looks at glance like a firearm, but isn't this the case with alot of markers? This is i think the big problem with paintball markers. In the US, i recon most people will be more knowligable about what is a firearm, and what is a paintball marker. And some markers do not resemble a firearm at all. But it has a barrel, grip, trigger, shoots a projectile and could be used for threatening, or worse. The ignorant can't tell the difference.

That is the problem. It can be used for other uses than intended. Just like a baseball bat or a kitchen knife. People like us will use it for what it was intended for, but yes there are always some rotten apples around. I don't think the mil-sim aspect should be a issue at all, if you threat it with care and respect. If not, i find it more than reasonable that a police officer would pull a gun and arresting you for carrying a paintball marker in public, disregarding the looks.

People should know better, kids should be taught and in my opinion not even near a item that shoots projectiles.

But this is my opinion, from a part of the world where paintball is for 18yrs and up, where maybe 50 people die from firearms a year, on a population of 16 million countrymen, and guns are only carried by cops, criminals and very few sport shooters.

[Blennidae]

I'm not a mil sim player, but if I were I think I might pick one up. It looks nice and if it functions well why not?

Do people not like it because its not "my thing"?

I guess I am looking at it in the same light as any gun control discussion. Its a slippery slope.

True, its the minority that makes paintball players look bad. But since this particular gun shoots the same ammo in basically the same way as any other paintball gun, if someone wants to abuse it, they will.

You start off saying it looks too much like a real gun, law enforcement wont be able to tell. So this one gets banned. Next its Black paintball guns should be banned because most guns are black. And so on and so forth.

People need to take responsibility for their actions. If you point anything at a law enforcement officer in a threatening manner and you get shot, you are to blame, not what you pointed at him.

I got into paintball because the idea of SHOOTING someone as part of a game appealed to me. I could really care less about playing tag or capture the flag, but if I get to shoot someone as part of it, that made it interesting to me.

I know it would be a bad idea to try this anywhere else but a paintball field, because I could end up getting shot with a real gun. Personal responsibility.

I dont call them markers. That is a term that came about after I had been playing for awhile. The same gun I have doesnt require any less care to be taken with it because I call it a marker. It can still cause the same amount of damage if handled irresponsibly. If you cant handle the equipment of your chosen sport being called what it is, then maybe you need to take up knitting. Just be careful of those needles. Notice that they are still called needles, not yarn-weavers. If grandma can handle it, you should be able to as well.

If mil-sim is the way things are going in the paintball world, let it. Cant be any worse than the rampant cheating and general poor sportsmanship so prevalent in the game now.

[bryceeden]

Our law enforcement has an increasingly crappy job (in my opinion). They are there to protect us and to enforce the county, state and federal laws that we live by. More and more it seems they are being called upon to protect us from each other (that is a whole different tangent).

If a cop sees a kid/adult running around carrying something that looks like an MP5, a Glock, an AK-47 whatever you decide is a good example, he has to make a decision. Is he really carrying a weapon? Is he a threat to the people around that might have to shot or worse killed? Now he's aiming it at a person on a bicycle. What should he do?

Now argue all you want about how the officer can call out for the person to stop and put the "gun" down, or he can see a hopper or hear the different sound of a marker firing vs a firearm, but I ask you 2 things.


Truth be told, police and SWAT have been having tons of problems with Airsoft for years because of this. I know alot of officers who would love nothing more than to see airsoft banned, they don't have a problem with paintball because our "guns" don't look like real guns.

-Training for law enforcement or military
This is an excuse I hear alot, but even in my small city police use simunitions. They are better in everyway than any paintball marker could be for training.

[Z-man]

Which I would agree with 100%.

Have any of you ever had the opportunity to ref / play in a game with a bunch of law enforcement or military personel who had never played before? It's usually pretty bad and I think refs should be warned about doing it.

You can see it from the start, the army guys are feeling real confident. Some are quiet about it and some are sizing up the poor fools they are going to mow down.

The game starts and they take off. They are relatively coordinated and organized. They move and what's more they move together and even cover fire for each other. The problem is that they handle the markers like fire arms.

take careful aim (from 30-40 yards away) fire off 2-3-4 shots and move up. On the other side is a 15 year old kid who has an Ion and figured out just enough to set it to 13.3bps full auto and over the course of shooting everything around him he is able to get one of them in his barrage of paint.

When the game is over the army guys are not so happy and some of them look a little annoyed. And why not? They just got wiped out by a bunch of untrained, civilians who are not in near the shape that they have worked to become.

Problem is that they are trying to play paintball as though they had M16s. Instead of having what, 50-100 rounds on them that you have to reload after 20 or 30, everyone had 3-500 on them. Instead of being able to shoot out the "O" in a stop sign from 50 yards with ease, they have things that can barely hit a human standing still constantly at 40 yards and ammunition that is so slow that you can dodge it. I submit this as the most graphic example of why paintball is NOT like warfare.

Now once the law enforcement and military guys get the hang of the game and have some experience, they REALLY start to dominate the fields. But that first game... man it's brutal for their egos.

[bryceeden]

Been there done that on the first time outing thing, many times. Heck once I was on the team that beat them and we were all using old mech guns. I have still not however found that they start to dominate once they get the hang of it, but they do deffinatly get better and have alot of fun. Thing is that thats all paintball is for is fun, for training its just not adequit(wow, I spelled that wrong). Training has to be as real as possible or its worthless. Heck, in CONTOMS they had you treat your fake patient while people were shooting live rounds over you at targets in the back ground just so you could get use to it(to speak nothing of the CS and sensory deprivation stuff). The ISTM uses real explosives and such to train you at how to act when breaching is involved as well as alot of real bullet shooting and such though out the course and makes everything as real as possible.

[TnDeathInc]

the Columbine massacre happened way before this gun was released. To say that mil sim guns can cause kids to get the wrong perception...well im sorry that dog just doesnt hunt.

The main groups i see with mil sim are ex military and hardcore scenario players (remember scenario is about role playing without the 10 sided dice). I think they are nice and evendecked out an RT to look as mil sim as possible. I rarely use it becuase of its air consumption, and usually use one of my vikings or my mac dev droid. either way i have never seen the kids at any of the 3 local fields i play at (except scenario games i atend) drool over a mil sim, its more directed towards the 1000+ markers made for speedball, ie.. egos, vice, dm, marqs etc....

I think the marker is nice, however i would buy a bullpup a-5 if i wanted a unique mil sim.

you have to be intelligent. I actually like the 18+ rulefixel was talking about, but here in the us i think it would cripple paintball as the age demographics here (the bulk of) are under the age of 18.

Anyway, i caused drama about 6 months ago when i pulled out my bright blue and black fade cocker at the work parking lot i was trying to sell. Someone reported me for having a rifle in the parking lot. Luckily they called security and he knew who it was called me on my cell and said to not bring those on campus anymore. so mil sim or not the avg person dont know.

my father in law has a decked out bullpup a-5, he makes sure it is always covered unless its on the field... i dont blame him its intimidatiing.

[Runamok]

$ 349 msrp We have 1 on pre-order

[bryceeden]

$ 349 msrp We have 1 on pre-order

$399 MAP

Desega has 2 on preorder.

Sorry, one shameless plug for another and a price correction MSRP is $449 I believe.

But anyway I think they'll sell very well.