Field Paint Only: A few issues

[RogueFactor]

I dread going to a FPO field. 99 times out of 100, the paint is overpriced crap. I prefer to choose my own paint from my own source for many reasons.

I do understand that fields have to make money to stay open, and this is how they are doing it...but is it good for the industry?

What I mean is, they say that paintball shops make their money on paint and air/CO2. Well, now most fields are going FPO and all day air. Cutting this revenue stream from shops. Gear(markers and parts) are mostly sold cheaper online, so the shops no longer make much money from that either(never really did in the first place).

This is certainly not good for the shop if thats where they make their money. If shops start closing, that cant be good for the manufacturers. But if fields close, and nobody has any organized legit(aka non-renegade) fields to play at...that cant be good either.

So, my questions is two parts:

1) Will you play at a FPO field where the paint is $50+ per case? Lets assume that the field is not providing you with good paint for $50(Ive yet to be at a field that does:mad:).
2) Do you think FPO is good or bad for the industry?

[DevilMan]

FPO can be good for the industry. Here's how.

A certain field I go to has just gone to FPO. Some reasons for FPO.

1. Less Staining Qualities Using WATER Based Paint Only.
2. More Control Over Colors Used. (No Red/Pink Fills)
3. Quality Control. Field can have paint shipped in that he knows will break when it's supposed to and not break when it shouldn't.

How is any of this GOOD you may ask?

If Mom, Dad, Junior and Lil Sis come to the field for the first time ever for Juniors BDay party and they get on the field and they get tore up with some other newb or other vet shooting paint that is crap and don't break or shooting 15 BPS and they come out lookin like a poster child for the local abuse hotline then what do you think that will do for the sport? Do you not think that not just 1, but 4 people will have a bad day, and when asked how it went will say it sucked and will pass it down that it hurts and it's no fun and it just all around is something that shouldn't be legal? Those 4 people can turn 4 more folks easily against the sport in 1 hour. Think of who they talk to?? The Mom at the grocery?? The Dad at work??? The kids at school??? Do you think it'd stop at 1??? I doubt it. Now you take those factors in and you put in a more controlled environment where you know the paint is of better quality. You know the paint marks well and you are strict with your control of the trigger happy folks. You know that the person shooting can see the paint break and therefore if they see it and keep going its on them. You know that the paint did break and would break and not bounce because you know where it came from, how fresh it is, and what EVERYONE else on the field is shooting.

So you have good paint and it's FPO. Okay... Now the price. Would you rather sell 1 box at 60 or 2 for 80??? Well 1 for 60 certainly sounds better. But what you miss in that equation is 1 person would pay 60 for 1 box. But for 2 boxes that's usually 2 people. AHHHHHHH.... That means there is a higher head count at the field which means you get the extra money back in AIR and Field Fee!!!!! Which in the end evens out and guess what. They are a happier player because it's cheaper for them individually and it's not welt city at the end of the day. They go out and tell everyone how fun it was and that it really wasn't that expensive for a full day of play and that Little Bobby should have his BDay party there and guess what you just did for the industry??? That's right. It's definitely not going to hurt it. Now they go out and get better guns, better setups and they get their friends in on it.

How many parents would like to get their kids out doing something other than chatting online and playing video games??? How many can afford to drop 1500 a pop for a USED dirtbike plus another 300 for gear so the whole family could go riding. What about the movies??? Yeah 2-3 hour show where noone talks and you just take in the dribble on the screen. Families who care are about taking their kids out and ENJOYING life with them. They do that by going to do FUN things that make memories that are enjoyable.

So FPO... Yes it can be good, Yes it can be bad. Overpriced crap is bad. Decent priced decent stuff is good.

See... Simple.

DM

[RogueFactor]

FPO can be good for the industry. Here's how.

A certain field I go to has just gone to FPO. Some reasons for FPO.

1. Less Staining Qualities Using WATER Based Paint Only.
2. More Control Over Colors Used. (No Red/Pink Fills)
3. Quality Control. Field can have paint shipped in that he knows will break when it's supposed to and not break when it shouldn't.
I dont understand how thats good for shops, or good for the consumer.

Ive played my fair share of paintball, and none of these have been relevant. Ive never gone to a field where red fills were an issue. Never. Most fields that want less staining qualities and control over colors go to a white ONLY rule. The whole no pink this was political thing between paint manufacturers for market share years ago.

Quality control...nobody has the ability to know they will get good paint. A field that orders paint and gets it in the day or two before a big weekend gets stuck with it if its bad if they are FPO. They NEED the paint. There just isnt time to fix the problem. Ive seen this happen to shops, fields, events, and even Pro teams.

So FPO... Yes it can be good, Yes it can be bad. Overpriced crap is bad. Decent priced decent stuff is good.

The Devil could be good too, but he isnt. History has shown me that every facet of this industry looks to squeek every last dollar they can out of everything even at their own expense.

[DevilMan]

I dont understand how thats good for shops, or good for the consumer.


It's good for the shops and the consumers because there will be more people as a whole brought into the fold of playing. The more players the more the lifeblood of the sport will remain strong. It's not unlike the high gas prices have driven up the number of motorcyclists. It's good for the rest of us as it becomes more commonplace to see them on the road and not just as some special niche of folks out to kill themselves. The news covers the number of Motorcycle accidents going up and those of cars going down. Well the simple one of that is.... Who's riding the bike??? More than likely it's the same person that WAS driving the car.


Ive played my fair share of paintball, and none of these have been relevant. Ive never gone to a field where red fills were an issue. Never. Most fields that want less staining qualities and control over colors go to a white ONLY rule. The whole no pink this was political thing between paint manufacturers for market share years ago.


Red was not used because it could look like blood to easily. Some folks don't like there kids getting into that as it looking bloody at a young age so it's a turn off for them. Also if you trip and fall and gash your leg open EVEN though I know what blood looks like it would be that much harder to tell if you were cut or just hit. Plus the reds seem to have a pigment in them that likes to stain alot of stuff easier than some of the other colors.


Quality control...nobody has the ability to know they will get good paint. A field that orders paint and gets it in the day or two before a big weekend gets stuck with it if its bad if they are FPO. They NEED the paint. There just isnt time to fix the problem. Ive seen this happen to shops, fields, events, and even Pro teams.


That's true but if the field gets stuck with bad paint 1 they can call the company and get it discounted, returned, comp'd, etc. If they get it discounted then they can then sell it discounted to move it out and just be more cautious about who is on the field knowing that it's harder to break or whatever. Even go so far as to turn down the FPS limit for the day/weekend.


The Devil could be good too, but he isnt. History has shown me that every facet of this industry looks to squeek every last dollar they can out of everything even at their own expense.

Again, it's perspective. Good??? Inherently good??? Perhaps not. But good and making it worthwhile? If everything was black you wouldn't know what white was. If everything was good you wouldn't know what bad was. If everyone had everything they ever wanted just by wishing it and it being so then 99% of the people on this planet wouldn't exist... ;) Just make sure not to ask me what I wish for first.:evillaugh:

And yes they do try to squeeze every last dime out and that has been it's downfall for alot of it. We know there is no real reason why the 08 guns cost $1400 only to have them down to $500 the next year.

DM

[RogueFactor]

It's good for the shops and the consumers because there will be more people as a whole brought into the fold of playing.
So, if shops close up because they cant make money from paint and air...you believe that more consumers will buy their gear online or at the field? Really?

Red was not used because it could look like blood to easily.
I know why its not used. I merely said its never been an issue at any field Ive played at EVER. And I primarily play at BYO fields, where supposedly, they have a hard time controlling the use of red and pink fills.

That's true but if the field gets stuck with bad paint 1 they can call the company and get it discounted, returned, comp'd, etc. If they get it discounted then they can then sell it discounted to move it out and just be more cautious about who is on the field knowing that it's harder to break or whatever. Even go so far as to turn down the FPS limit for the day/weekend.
LOL. I thought one of the benefits of FPO was Quality Control. So I guess, its not a matter of quality...but of price? And how does that benefit the industry when John Q consumer had to play with sub-standard paint?

Again, it's perspective. Good??? Inherently good??? Perhaps not. But good and making it worthwhile? If everything was black you wouldn't know what white was.
Right. Thats my point. FPO limits the consumer from knowing what good and bad is. You dont have a choice.

And yes they do try to squeeze every last dime out and that has been it's downfall for alot of it. We know there is no real reason why the 08 guns cost $1400 only to have them down to $500 the next year.

DM

Most Sporting Goods are like that. Paintball was growing so fast in prior years that resale kept up. Go try to sell a used baseball, karate gi, or nearly any other used sporting good and let me know how much you get in relation to what you paid a year earlier. I was talking more about those who make us buy new stuff at exorbitant prices to play this sport. It would be the equivalent of someone saying we had to buy their soccer ball to play on their soccer field every time we went out.

[DevilMan]

Originally Posted by DevilMan
It's good for the shops and the consumers because there will be more people as a whole brought into the fold of playing.
So, if shops close up because they cant make money from paint and air...you believe that more consumers will buy their gear online or at the field? Really?

I'm not saying shops closing up because of paint sales. I'm saying that as a whole the more people there are playing the more people there would be coming into the stores to buy other stuff aside from paint. We all know it's a fine line to walk that determines at the end of the day if you post Profit or Loss.


Originally Posted by DevilMan
Red was not used because it could look like blood to easily.
I know why its not used. I merely said its never been an issue at any field Ive played at EVER. And I primarily play at BYO fields, where supposedly, they have a hard time controlling the use of red and pink fills.
hmmmm... Well I know BC for one HIGHLY enforces the No Pink/No Red rule. A few here can attest to that. And I'm pretty sure TAG does as well though now he is FPO so that don't matter. I'm not sure about the other places I've been to, as I don't have an issue as I don't buy red or pink filled paint. Ahhhhh... I think that Bonus Ball crap I got down south was Pink fill and noone cared. That was at CPP I think.

Originally Posted by DevilMan
That's true but if the field gets stuck with bad paint 1 they can call the company and get it discounted, returned, comp'd, etc. If they get it discounted then they can then sell it discounted to move it out and just be more cautious about who is on the field knowing that it's harder to break or whatever. Even go so far as to turn down the FPS limit for the day/weekend. LOL. I thought one of the benefits of FPO was Quality Control. So I guess, its not a matter of quality...but of price? And how does that benefit the industry when John Q consumer had to play with sub-standard paint?

Not necessarily. If the field gets crap paint they can change the brand and get something else. At the same time the field could pass the savings on to the John Q knowing that it's sub standard (Now whether or not the field would is another question) At the same time the field could enforce a lower FPS so that the shots with the marbles don't leave as deep of a welt. I'm not saying that John Q shouldn't have a choice, but the majority of John Q's out there see this as what paint to buy, ".68 caliber, 2000 balls, $XX.00" They are all the same to him. So he gets the one with the smallest XX and off he goes not knowing that the field paint is better or worse. If the field tries to take care to keep the paint good and the prices fair then John Q can choose other things and not worry about getting overshot because of bad paint, and not have to overshoot for the same reason.

Originally Posted by DevilMan
Again, it's perspective. Good??? Inherently good??? Perhaps not. But good and making it worthwhile? If everything was black you wouldn't know what white was.
Right. Thats my point. FPO limits the consumer from knowing what good and bad is. You dont have a choice.

That is true and I won't argue that. Choice is good yes. But I think for the beginner player it's nice to have a way to control it. OHHHH Good example. Okay. If you call up BC you get the message on the phone that says if you RENT their guns you must buy the paint from them. Honestly the paint isn't that bad and it broke well and shot nice. I've bought some. So say that if you rent from them you have to have FPO. Same as at TAG if you shoot a gun and your hopper has moving parts you can't play with the rental folks. If you rent from the field you buy paint from the field. That helps cover the cost to clean and fix the guns when you leave. Is that not fair trade??? I mean if you bring your own gun then you take your own gun home and have to clean it yourself. But when you rent the field has to pay someone to clean the gear. So they make up for that in adding a bit to the price of the paint.

Originally Posted by DevilMan
And yes they do try to squeeze every last dime out and that has been it's downfall for alot of it. We know there is no real reason why the 08 guns cost $1400 only to have them down to $500 the next year.

Most Sporting Goods are like that. Paintball was growing so fast in prior years that resale kept up. Go try to sell a used baseball, karate gi, or nearly any other used sporting good and let me know how much you get in relation to what you paid a year earlier. I was talking more about those who make us buy new stuff at exorbitant prices to play this sport. It would be the equivalent of someone saying we had to buy their soccer ball to play on their soccer field every time we went out.

Not 100%. It's more like saying if you want to play regulation football you have to use a regulation sized ball.

Good thing it's a slow day at work..... Back to my homework...

DM

[B-Pow]

On average it costs me the same to go to a FPO field as it does to go to a BYOP field.

The FPO fields "save" the consumer on entry and air, so it's 40-60$ for paint and maybe 10$ for entry and air

BYOP fields are 20-30$ for entry and air and say you went out and got decent paint for 30-40$, also if you forget paint the BYOP fields usually sell paint on field for a better price than FPO fields.

The FPO field also has control on what is hitting their fields so they can get less staining paints (I've been somewhere that was all white fill, paint was fair with a fair price for FPO).

The BYOP fields just have to guess what people are walking out there with...and what "dammage" bad paints can do to the fields and other consumers.

I've been to both BYOP and PFO fields that were emaculate and messy as snot. The worst base grade FPO paint I've ever had was still better than what people will walk onto a BYOP field with.

[RogueFactor]

Originally Posted by DevilMan
I'm not saying shops closing up because of paint sales. I'm saying that as a whole the more people there are playing the more people there would be coming into the stores to buy other stuff aside from paint. We all know it's a fine line to walk that determines at the end of the day if you post Profit or Loss.
The problem with the statement is that youve assumed more people will play if its FPO. That has yet to be determined.
If we agree the bolded part of your statement is accurate, how will losing paint sales effect a shop? Also, just so I know...when was the last time you bought a brand new marker off the shelf from a local paintball shop(full price of course). Oh, and one last thing...of all the markers you own, how many of them did you buy used?



Originally Posted by DevilMan
hmmmm... Well I know BC for one HIGHLY enforces the No Pink/No Red rule. A few here can attest to that. And I'm pretty sure TAG does as well though now he is FPO so that don't matter. I'm not sure about the other places I've been to, as I don't have an issue as I don't buy red or pink filled paint. Ahhhhh... I think that Bonus Ball crap I got down south was Pink fill and noone cared. That was at CPP I think.
I dont understand what your point is on this one.


Originally Posted by DevilMan
Not necessarily. If the field gets crap paint they can change the brand and get something else. At the same time the field could pass the savings on to the John Q knowing that it's sub standard (Now whether or not the field would is another question) At the same time the field could enforce a lower FPS so that the shots with the marbles don't leave as deep of a welt. I'm not saying that John Q shouldn't have a choice, but the majority of John Q's out there see this as what paint to buy, ".68 caliber, 2000 balls, $XX.00" They are all the same to him. So he gets the one with the smallest XX and off he goes not knowing that the field paint is better or worse. If the field tries to take care to keep the paint good and the prices fair then John Q can choose other things and not worry about getting overshot because of bad paint, and not have to overshoot for the same reason.
Price and Quality Control are separate and different. Either FPO gives the field Quality Control(one of the benefits you listed), or it doesnt. Regardless of a discount given. Quality(or lack thereof) can have an effect on the day of play. Youve stated that in the post from another thread. So what good is a discount to the shop or the consumer if the paint quality has effected the play?


Originally Posted by DevilMan
That is true and I won't argue that. Choice is good yes. But I think for the beginner player it's nice to have a way to control it. OHHHH Good example. Okay. If you call up BC you get the message on the phone that says if you RENT their guns you must buy the paint from them. Honestly the paint isn't that bad and it broke well and shot nice. I've bought some. So say that if you rent from them you have to have FPO. Same as at TAG if you shoot a gun and your hopper has moving parts you can't play with the rental folks. If you rent from the field you buy paint from the field. That helps cover the cost to clean and fix the guns when you leave. Is that not fair trade??? I mean if you bring your own gun then you take your own gun home and have to clean it yourself. But when you rent the field has to pay someone to clean the gear. So they make up for that in adding a bit to the price of the paint.
By those examples they arent FPO fields. Field Paint Only means exactly that to me. Being that I dont rent, if I am not required to buy their paint then Im cool. I can tell you for certain that TAG intends to be FPO if he isnt already. For everyone.


Originally Posted by DevilMan
Not 100%. It's more like saying if you want to play regulation football you have to use a regulation sized ball.
I think that is a poor analogy. FPO/BYO doesnt determine whether a ball is regulation. And a field doesnt determine what is regulation. Regulatory commitees do(like the ASTM)

[DevilMan]

Originally Posted by DevilMan
I'm not saying shops closing up because of paint sales. I'm saying that as a whole the more people there are playing the more people there would be coming into the stores to buy other stuff aside from paint. We all know it's a fine line to walk that determines at the end of the day if you post Profit or Loss.
The problem with the statement is that youve assumed more people will play if its FPO. That has yet to be determined.
If we agree the bolded part of your statement is accurate, how will losing paint sales effect a shop? Also, just so I know...when was the last time you bought a brand new marker off the shelf from a local paintball shop(full price of course). Oh, and one last thing...of all the markers you own, how many of them did you buy used?

I've NEVER bought any of my markers in the store. The closest I can get is my first one back in 94 was ordered via an online store and shipped to me in Japan. All of my stuff has been bought used. I'm a redneck from way back. I've never bought a new car, a new truck, new gun (Either PB or Real) a new motorcycle, etc. Hell I guess the only things I buy new are clothes and food. I'm not assuming that more people will play. I'm stating that being FPO CAN be good and it CAN be bad. The trick is to find the middle ground. "There can (not) be only one!"



Originally Posted by DevilMan
hmmmm... Well I know BC for one HIGHLY enforces the No Pink/No Red rule. A few here can attest to that. And I'm pretty sure TAG does as well though now he is FPO so that don't matter. I'm not sure about the other places I've been to, as I don't have an issue as I don't buy red or pink filled paint. Ahhhhh... I think that Bonus Ball crap I got down south was Pink fill and noone cared. That was at CPP I think.
I dont understand what your point is on this one.
I was stating that BC DOES NOT ALLOW Pink or Red paint fills and it's highly enforced. The CPP part was about using the Bonus Ball stuff that was pink and noone ever cared. I stated I don't buy red or pink filled paint so it's not an issue. Then I said OH YEAH!!! At CPP I did. And noone there cared. Sorry was a mixed thought.


Originally Posted by DevilMan
Not necessarily. If the field gets crap paint they can change the brand and get something else. At the same time the field could pass the savings on to the John Q knowing that it's sub standard (Now whether or not the field would is another question) At the same time the field could enforce a lower FPS so that the shots with the marbles don't leave as deep of a welt. I'm not saying that John Q shouldn't have a choice, but the majority of John Q's out there see this as what paint to buy, ".68 caliber, 2000 balls, $XX.00" They are all the same to him. So he gets the one with the smallest XX and off he goes not knowing that the field paint is better or worse. If the field tries to take care to keep the paint good and the prices fair then John Q can choose other things and not worry about getting overshot because of bad paint, and not have to overshoot for the same reason.
Price and Quality Control are separate and different. Either FPO gives the field Quality Control(one of the benefits you listed), or it doesnt. Regardless of a discount given. Quality(or lack thereof) can have an effect on the day of play. Youve stated that in the post from another thread. So what good is a discount to the shop or the consumer if the paint quality has effected the play?

The discount can make up for the crappy day of play. If you go to a field and pay your fees and get ready to play and 3 other people show up then that makes for a pretty crappy day of play would it not. Would you think you deserve a refund or raincheck??? Same is said for the paint. If it's crap paint then there is a way for the field to "make it up to you". If YOU are the only one having an issue with the paint then it looks like you are the exception to the rule and well, find out what the deal is because the rest of the folks aren't having an issue.

Originally Posted by DevilMan
That is true and I won't argue that. Choice is good yes. But I think for the beginner player it's nice to have a way to control it. OHHHH Good example. Okay. If you call up BC you get the message on the phone that says if you RENT their guns you must buy the paint from them. Honestly the paint isn't that bad and it broke well and shot nice. I've bought some. So say that if you rent from them you have to have FPO. Same as at TAG if you shoot a gun and your hopper has moving parts you can't play with the rental folks. If you rent from the field you buy paint from the field. That helps cover the cost to clean and fix the guns when you leave. Is that not fair trade??? I mean if you bring your own gun then you take your own gun home and have to clean it yourself. But when you rent the field has to pay someone to clean the gear. So they make up for that in adding a bit to the price of the paint.
By those examples they arent FPO fields. Field Paint Only means exactly that to me. Being that I dont rent, if I am not required to buy their paint then Im cool. I can tell you for certain that TAG intends to be FPO if he isnt already. For everyone.

TAG is FPO now. He started it at the first of July. BUT the paint he is getting is GOOD quality, not to hard and not to soft, not super brittle but will mark nicely and it's $40 a case I think.

Originally Posted by DevilMan
Not 100%. It's more like saying if you want to play regulation football you have to use a regulation sized ball.
I think that is a poor analogy. FPO/BYO doesnt determine whether a ball is regulation. And a field doesnt determine what is regulation. Regulatory commitees do(like the ASTM)

No a field don't determine the regulation. But it can determine what is allowed and what isn't. Would you want to go home with paint all over your gear and clothes that stains??? Would you like it if the stuff wouldn't wash off because of how oily it all is??? Sure you don't wear your sunday best to the field but some folks don't want to look like they had a run in with the 60's after they have done the laundry.

Such Pretty Colors.... :rofl2:

[RogueFactor]

The FPO fields "save" the consumer on entry and air, so it's 40-60$ for paint and maybe 10$ for entry and air

Usually before I play a field, I research it to know how much its going to cost me. Im intersted to know where this field is. Ive never been fortunate enough to play at a field that only charges $10 total for both entry and air.

[RogueFactor]

No a field don't determine the regulation. But it can determine what is allowed and what isn't. Would you want to go home with paint all over your gear and clothes that stains??? Would you like it if the stuff wouldn't wash off because of how oily it all is??? Sure you don't wear your sunday best to the field but some folks don't want to look like they had a run in with the 60's after they have done the laundry.

Such Pretty Colors.... :rofl2:
Ive played it both ways, and honestly I dont really care. To me, its no different than grass stains from football, or field stains from sliding in baseball, or gettings scuffs on a pair of basketball shoes from marking rubber soles.

I still dont honestly see how thats an argument for FPO though? If anything, its an argument for regulation within the industry that no oil/colored/staining paints should be manufactured. Then everyone can play with white paintballs and not worry about mucking up their sunday best:wthumpup:

[RogueFactor]

If we agree the bolded part of your statement is accurate, how will losing paint sales effect a shop? Also, just so I know...when was the last time you bought a brand new marker off the shelf from a local paintball shop(full price of course). Oh, and one last thing...of all the markers you own, how many of them did you buy used?
Originally Posted by DevilMan
I'm stating that being FPO CAN be good and it CAN be bad. The trick is to find the middle ground.
Therein lies the rub. When you say "Field Paint ONLY" there is no middle ground to be had. Maybe Field Paint Sometimes?
Also, you didnt answer how losing paint sales will effect the local shop who, if we agree on your bolded statement, is riding the fine line already between Profit and Loss.


Originally Posted by DevilMan
I was stating that BC DOES NOT ALLOW Pink or Red paint fills and it's highly enforced. The CPP part was about using the Bonus Ball stuff that was pink and noone ever cared. I stated I don't buy red or pink filled paint so it's not an issue. Then I said OH YEAH!!! At CPP I did. And noone there cared. Sorry was a mixed thought.
I cant think of a single field Ive played at that allows red. Pink was never a big deal, unless it stained(Chronic 420 used to contain iodine a few years ago, purposely TO stain). Otherwise, it really didnt matter. Like I said, pink was more of a manufacturers political move. Put iodine in any color paint and it will stain. Long story about the politics, maybe for another thread.


Originally Posted by DevilMan
The discount can make up for the crappy day of play. If you go to a field and pay your fees and get ready to play and 3 other people show up then that makes for a pretty crappy day of play would it not. Would you think you deserve a refund or raincheck??? Same is said for the paint. If it's crap paint then there is a way for the field to "make it up to you". If YOU are the only one having an issue with the paint then it looks like you are the exception to the rule and well, find out what the deal is because the rest of the folks aren't having an issue.

I can only respond to this with a quote from you, ive bolded the most pertinent part... But I'll be damned if I'm gonna stand by and watch some 3rd rate store keep raping the hell out of my friends and fellow players by charging $65 a case for some Rec Grade Karnage!!!! For 1 because I DON"T WANT TO GET SHOT 12 TIMES BECAUSE IT DON'T BREAK, and 2 Because I want people to enjoy their day and learn that you can make your shots count alot better with better quality paint. Ask ZMan how much paint he went through the last time he used quality stuff.

Originally Posted by DevilMan
TAG is FPO now. He started it at the first of July. BUT the paint he is getting is GOOD quality, not to hard and not to soft, not super brittle but will mark nicely and it's $40 a case I think.
If its the paint I played with when I was there, its not good quality. It is mediocre at best.

^

[B-Pow]

Usually before I play a field, I research it to know how much its going to cost me. Im intersted to know where this field is. Ive never been fortunate enough to play at a field that only charges $10 total for both entry and air.

I can't double check from my desk at work but the FPO fields I'm thinking of

Stinger paintball in WI (entry was about 10 maybe 15 being indoor)
The Grindhouse in IL (near chicago was 10 I believe plus their paint, owned by the badlandz)
PB Werehouse in IL (near chicago was 10 I think while they were open, they had deals on Thursday or friday nights where their paint was 40)

All of those are indoor...the outdoor FPO fields in chicagoland have bad reputations. like CPX....the only paintball field in history to have it's entire reffing staff go on strike...also notorious for theft and lapse (at best) saftey. Then there's the badlandz...where chicago aftershock call home...I can do without the agglets. But there are expensive indoor places too like CLP where chicago farside call home...but they keep people in their doors with the "privlage" of maybe playing with or seeing "pros" play.

I do my research before I drop my hard earned cash.

[RogueFactor]

B-Pow:

Ive heard of fields who charge $10 for entry, not any for entry and all day air. It appears from the ones youve listed its $10 for entry only.

[Dark Side]

Being a field operator I believe I have a very good insight into this debate. I charge no field fees; it's BYOP and BYOA if wanted. The fields are owned by the Air Force here on Tyndall AFB in panama city FL. The primary paint I stock is DXS Triumph for $45 a case; as well as carrying all levels of DXS. I am in the process of picking up GAP who makes the best paint I've ever used.

FPO: You are Quality Assurance. You can be a POS and overcharge for 6 month old paint that can't fly straight to save your life; or give a good deal to people because you want the sport to advance.

BYOP: Very little Quality Control, especially if you turn your back for a minute. If the people who play at your fields have any level of integrity for the game, you have no worries. But if not you are screwed with a bad rep and too many people who would rather hate the game than give it a chance after hearing horry stories from the neighbors whose kids cried the whole way home after the BD party.


Take for instance a BYOP field such as mine. I do not allow any staining paint, or any paint that resembles marbles with a bit of food coloring inside, ie: Monsterballs. I tell people what I expect of them and I'd say for 98% of the time I have zero problems. But I do have the advantage of where my fields are located. QC is huge on my fields, and because of this I rarely get problems. I have parents of young children who have no worries letting their kids come and play. If that isn't proof of success, I can't think of one.

So in retrospect:

1) Will you play at a FPO field where the paint is $50+ per case? Lets assume that the field is not providing you with good paint for $50(Ive yet to be at a field that does). I'd rather not. But as I have said I am aware of fields that stock good paint for that price.


2) Do you think FPO is good or bad for the industry? Depends on the fields rep. If they strive to provide an overall good experience for anyone that comes by, then it is good for the industry at least in that region of said field. If not then it only hurts far more than that said field.

There is no Black or White answer here. :cheers:

[DevilMan]

:appl:

Seeeee... It can be Black and White... Together they make GREY!!!! :D

Said much better and with fewer keystrokes DS!!!

DM

[Dark Side]

I just have insight to the matter. If I can help someone understand why I do the things I do, then I believe it will only progress the sport.

By the way, If any of you are ever down Panama City way; give me a PM and I'll get you on base to play.

[bryceeden]

We do all of our tournements as FPO, but we make sure we have fresh good quality paints and enough kinds that everyone can find one that works well for them. With altleast 10 days notice we'll special order whatever kind a team wants, but it does cost more due to shipping on afew cases being crazy. We also charge pretty reasonable priceson our normal paints we stock, sure you can get it alittle cheaper online, but not much. If we didn't do FPO we'd have to raise our entry prices a ton to make it worth doing the tourneys. Plus the big problem is that BYOP lets you get everything in, in our beginner tourneys we get people pretty commonly trying to sneak in Blue Streak or other K2 paints which not only stain stuff, are not biodegradable, and eat holes in our bunkers, but encorage overshooting because they don't break. But they are cheap so people use them or new players who are at Walmart getting whatever decide to grab some paint while they are there. Alot of rec ballers think that paint is paint, they don't realise that there is a huge difference in quality. But really it all comes down to cash, to stay open most places have to be FPO. It seems like any more most stores are also fields, the internet is effectivly eliminating most independant stores most places. I do not however condone FPO crap paint, there is no excuse for deliberatly using garbage when reasonably good paints can be had for very close to the same price.

I'm tired, I hope this post makes scense.

[Dark Side]

We do all of our tournements as FPO, but we make sure we have fresh good quality paints and enough kinds that everyone can find one that works well for them. With altleast 10 days notice we'll special order whatever kind a team wants, but it does cost more due to shipping on afew cases being crazy. We also charge pretty reasonable priceson our normal paints we stock, sure you can get it alittle cheaper online, but not much. If we didn't do FPO we'd have to raise our entry prices a ton to make it worth doing the tourneys. Plus the big problem is that BYOP lets you get everything in, in our beginner tourneys we get people pretty commonly trying to sneak in Blue Streak or other K2 paints which not only stain stuff, are not biodegradable, and eat holes in our bunkers, but encorage overshooting because they don't break. But they are cheap so people use them or new players who are at Walmart getting whatever decide to grab some paint while they are there. Alot of rec ballers think that paint is paint, they don't realise that there is a huge difference in quality. But really it all comes down to cash, to stay open most places have to be FPO. It seems like any more most stores are also fields, the internet is effectivly eliminating most independant stores most places. I do not however condone FPO crap paint, there is no excuse for deliberatly using garbage when reasonably good paints can be had for very close to the same price.

I'm tired, I hope this post makes scense.


I can't argue.

The internet is eliminating stores. With no overhead to speak of, it makes sense that if you are only going to have a store, make it an interent store.



I do not however condone FPO crap paint, there is no excuse for deliberatly using garbage when reasonably good paints can be had for very close to the same price. :cheers: This only reinforces my argument.

[RogueFactor]

I wish you 2 were the rule, and not the exception. I think if most field owners did this as a side job like you 2, the industry would be better off.

[DevilMan]

Soooo seeeeeeeeeeee It could be good for the sport... Same as Lawyers could be good for the planet....

:D

Sorry if any of you are lawyers...

DM

[Ninjeff]

Ive played it both ways, and honestly I dont really care. To me, its no different than grass stains from football, or field stains from sliding in baseball, or gettings scuffs on a pair of basketball shoes from marking rubber soles.

I still dont honestly see how thats an argument for FPO though? If anything, its an argument for regulation within the industry that no oil/colored/staining paints should be manufactured. Then everyone can play with white paintballs and not worry about mucking up their sunday best:wthumpup:

I agree the industry needs better regulation of fills.....


however, i know the field owner for the field i go to also used white fill and a certain manufacturer because the paint is less destructive to the environment.

[cyrus-the-virus]

Finding a FPO field that has good reasonably priced paint is very rare.... I have to side with rogue with that.

Persoanly I think paintball is going to crash and burn they way it's being run.

[Dark Side]

Finding a FPO field that has good reasonably priced paint is very rare.... I have to side with rogue with that.

Persoanly I think paintball is going to crash and burn they way it's being run.

I hope not. I rather enjoy other people paying for my addiction.:evillaugh: