Tac-One Tuning Issues

[xxkylexx]

Hey guys,
I bought this tac-one mag last week so that I could have it to play in the upcoming grand finale scenario down here in Florida this coming weekend.

I've taken it out to the local field 2 times now and can't get it working properly still, and now I am getting a bit worried that I won't have it functioning properly in tome for the big game this weekend (which is the whole reason I bought the thing so soon).

I own another classic mag with a level 10 which I tuned myself in the past with no problems at all, so at least I think I know what I am doing when it comes to tuning this tac-one.

The problem is, I can't shoot the gun without it "chuffing" every other shot with any rate of fire over 1-2 bps. I am currently using the 1 line no dots carrier (which is the absolute largest carrier with no leaking) and 2 shims (I tried 3, which doesn't leak, but still has the same problem).

I am have tried using the middle red and largest grey spring, but both cause the same problem. I have tried turning up the velocity as far as the gun will go, but it still works the same (chuffing every other shot with any considerable rate of fire). I can get the gun to shoot fine with the smallest gold spring, but then it chops paint.

Any ideas here? I am getting really frustrated at this point and to be honest, wishing I didn't drop the dough on it now and stuck with my ole classic.

Thanks much,
Kyle


*****UPDATE VIDEO ADDED*******
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kC1v5JNuHOg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1_hKU_b7tc

[xxkylexx]

Also, when the gun chuffs every other shot, it tends to load the ball in the barrell (causing double balls to shoot on the next true shot), or barely rolls out the end.

[tymcneer]

Kyle,

Your marker is suffering from a "balance" issue. The reason you shoot fine, but chop with the gold spring has to do with there being enough pressure to cycle the marker, but not enough resistance to cause the bolt to stop on paint. The problem with chuffing on the red/grey springs have to to with not enough pressure to drive the bolt forward consistently.

Remedies:

1. Use the gold spring, but put a smaller carrier in the Level 10

---------------------- OR ------------------------

2. Use the red spring, but turn up the velocity until the marker cycles properly.

With either of these remedies, you will be adjusting the velocity.

If you have an other questions, contact me via PM, and I will walk you through the logic of my statements.

Ty

[BigEvil]

Hey Kyle - did you buy this marker new or used? Also, what on/off do you have in there, what type of grip frame, and what tank are you using?

[xxkylexx]

Kyle,

Your marker is suffering from a "balance" issue. The reason you shoot fine, but chop with the gold spring has to do with there being enough pressure to cycle the marker, but not enough resistance to cause the bolt to stop on paint. The problem with chuffing on the red/grey springs have to to with not enough pressure to drive the bolt forward consistently.

Remedies:

1. Use the gold spring, but put a smaller carrier in the Level 10

---------------------- OR ------------------------

2. Use the red spring, but turn up the velocity until the marker cycles properly.

With either of these remedies, you will be adjusting the velocity.

If you have an other questions, contact me via PM, and I will walk you through the logic of my statements.

Ty

Thanks. The chuffing symptoms on the red and silver springs remain even when I turn the velocity up as high as the gun will possibly go.

Hey Kyle - did you buy this marker new or used? Also, what on/off do you have in there, what type of grip frame, and what tank are you using?

I bought it used from a guy on AO. The gun is about a year old, but practically brand new still. The guy said he only shot it about 1000 times in his back yard, and it shows (it's still in pretty mint looking condition).

[xxkylexx]

Also, I called AGD support and the guy there told me to put the 3 shims back in since they was the most that didn't cause a leak, and then cut down my largest silver spring until it worked.

[xxkylexx]

Hey Kyle - did you buy this marker new or used? Also, what on/off do you have in there, what type of grip frame, and what tank are you using?

This is kind of annoying. I can't seem to find an edit button, so I'm having to reply multiple times. Sorry about that.

I assume it has the stock on/off that comes on the tac-one/x-valve.

Intelliframe is the grip frame.

88/4500 pure energy HP tank.

[RogueFactor]

Honestly, your issue sounds more like a paint problem than a Level 10 issue. Make sure you have a good paint to barrel match. There is nothing the Level 10 can do about paint that wont fit down the barrel.

Personally, I always use the gold spring. But I also dont use uber-brittle tourney grade paint that cracks when you look at it the wrong way either. So, my gold spring has never caused me issues.

[xxkylexx]

Honestly, your issue sounds more like a paint problem than a Level 10 issue. Make sure you have a good paint to barrel match. There is nothing the Level 10 can do about paint that wont fit down the barrel.

Personally, I always use the gold spring. But I also dont use uber-brittle tourney grade paint that cracks when you look at it the wrong way either. So, my gold spring has never caused me issues.

Rogue,
It acts the same way when just dry firing the gun, so I don't think it's a paint issue. I might try out the smaller carrier idea posted above. That seems to make sense.

[tymcneer]

Kyle,

You don't get edit functions until you post a certain amount (which I can't remember)

One other thought to consider... Are you tightening the field strip screw with an allen wrench? If so, don't. I have a couple of mags that if the field strip screw is too tight, they act very badly.

You wouldn't happen to live in the Baltimore MD, Washington DC area? If so, I think I can help you.

Ty

[xxkylexx]

Kyle,

You don't get edit functions until you post a certain amount (which I can't remember)

One other thought to consider... Are you tightening the field strip screw with an allen wrench? If so, don't. I have a couple of mags that if the field strip screw is too tight, they act very badly.

You wouldn't happen to live in the Baltimore MD, Washington DC area? If so, I think I can help you.

Ty

Thanks for that. :)

I only tighten my field strip screw finger tight, so I don't think that would be any problem. What about the grip frame screw, can I overtighten that?

Unfortunately, I do not. I live in the north/central Florida area. If anyone is around here that thinks they can get this working right, please do let me know.

[RogueFactor]

Rogue,
It acts the same way when just dry firing the gun, so I don't think it's a paint issue. I might try out the smaller carrier idea posted above. That seems to make sense.

A smaller carrier will only make it chuff more. The carriers do only 1 thing, seal the powertube o-ring against the bolt stem.

If the carrier is too big, its loose and leaks. If its too small, its too tight and squeezes on the bolt stem enough to either cause it to chuff from the friction or if really too tight not cycle at all.

If it shoots fine with the gold spring, then it doesnt sounds like the Level 10 is the issue.

Hard to say though, being an internet diagnosis.

[xxkylexx]

Ahh!!, what to do!!?! :confused::(

[tymcneer]

Hey Rogue!

The small carrier trick is to make the gold spring not chop. In that configuration there will be more resistance, therefore the bolt will stop on the ball easier.

Or

Do I have this all wrong?

Ty

[xxkylexx]

Ok, this is kinda weird. I took all the shims out and the bolt still resets fine after hitting an obstruction. Is that normal? :confused:

[tymcneer]

It's quite possible.

The shims determine when the bolt begins to leak. The leak is what allows the bolt to reset after hitting something. This is why each kit has to be tuned to the valve it's being put on.

Unfortunately, I don't know anyone that does Mags in Florida, sorry.

Ty

[xxkylexx]

0-3 shims seem to work.

So which do you recommend I use?

Thanks again.

[tymcneer]

Not exactly sure...

I usually set mine up with two, unless they are having bolt stick issues. Then I increase the number of shims to cause the valve to leak earlier and therefore reduce bolt stick. As a note, there are two types of bolt stick we have encountered. The first occurs when the marker pinches a ball, but doesn't fire or retract the bolt. The other is when the marker fires, but the bolt doesn't retract fully. The first is solved via shims. The second is a collapsed main spring... replace it.

If anyone knows I've screwed something up... please tell me. I don't want to lead Kyle astray... wel not too far ;)

Ty

[xxkylexx]

Here's 2 videos of me dry firing it. You can see it choking up every other shot when I shoot fast. Hope this helps in diagnosing it. This is with the middle/red spring and no shims (it does the same thing with the shims as well) and with the velocity turned up as high as possible.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kC1v5JNuHOg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1_hKU_b7tc

[RogueFactor]

In those videos, its not the marker. You shortstroking when you pull the trigger, not allowing it to recharge.

[MedicDVG]

In those videos, its not the marker. You shortstroking when you pull the trigger, not allowing it to recharge.

Doh.. gotta hate pilot error...

:ooo:

[BlueDragonX]

Yes, your fingers look very inconsistent on the trigger. Do a full pull and a full release with each pull of the trigger, that way you don't short-stroke.

[xxkylexx]

It doesn't make sense though. If I were short stroking the trigger, I'd still be short stroking it just as well when using the gold spring which works just fine.

I've shot a mag for years.

I'll do another video soon, shooting a bit slower with obvious full pull trigger pulls and it'll still do it.



I also had an idea, tell me if you think this will work. I was thinking that the bolt stem to carrier ratio is just off or something and is hard to match up right here. What if I took the entire lvl 10 system out of my classic mag and put it in this one (carrier, shims, bolt, spring, etc)? Maybe that might work?

[tymcneer]

All I can say is give it a try. If you can't get it to work, and you can't find a local technician to fix it... it might be time to send it to the pros (Tuna, RogueFactor, someone)

Ty

[xxkylexx]

Me and a buddy put a MASSIVE (and I do mean massive) amount of oil all through all parts the valve/gun tonight and it seemed possibly to have fixed the problem, but we ran out or air before we could thoroughly test it.

I'll post back tomorrow after I get more air.

[xxkylexx]

Shot it today with just air. Was much better than before, but still chuffs out every now and then.

Only thing that worries me is that if or not I can get it chrono below 280 fps.