PSP...12 bps cap?

[RogueFactor]

I dont recall where I read it, but the word is that the PSP will be lowering the ROF cap to 12 from 15.

Has anyone else heard this? Can anyone confirm if its true or not? What are the reasons for the change?

[Ninjeff]

Havent heard that yet.

would be nifty if it happened though.

[p8ntball72]

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2441691

If you notice, most "new" guns coming from smart parts and dye have a lower max rate of fire and modes now have caps on them.
This may be an effort from the industry to cut costs to sponsored teams, while promoting their 2008 inferior product line.

[RogueFactor]

If you notice, most "new" guns coming from smart parts and dye have a lower max rate of fire and modes now have caps on them.
This may be an effort from the industry to cut costs to sponsored teams, while promoting their 2008 inferior product line.

Now thats an interesting point. They will make cheap starter markers, and market them to the 'young crowd'.

[Triangle]

Havent heard that yet.

would be nifty if it happened though.

Why?

What does anyone care?

How many people here actually compete at that level, or have the money and time to do it on a regular basis?

[CHRONOBREAK]

Im not as familiar with the subject as ide like to be.

i know there have been several changes as far as ROF over the years.

wasnt there a cap or gentelmans agreement to cap ROF around 12 bps?

if i recall the earlier shockers were caped 9-13 as were rainmakers? i also had a bushy that was caped at 12 bps.

was this an ASTM standard? or just an agreement or bps that seemed to work well.

im wondering if this move was more to help the league and formating of games, or something more on the insurance/safety/guidline sort of things.

[ta2maki]

Why?

What does anyone care?

How many people here actually compete at that level, or have the money and time to do it on a regular basis?

This happening at tournaments could cause this to trickle down to regular fields. Also, if general mentality that shooting 12+ is cheating, it would cause more people to stick to lower rates of fire. This would allow for more movement on the feild.

[Triangle]

This happening at tournaments could cause this to trickle down to regular fields. Also, if general mentality that shooting 12+ is cheating, it would cause more people to stick to lower rates of fire. This would allow for more movement on the feild.

You say that, everyone has been saying that a lower ROF would promote movement for years now.

Have you ever played competition ball?

Even when there were no ROF caps I saw nothing BUT movement.
go youtube old tourney vids, run through's, bunkers, movement, movement movement.

The teams that sit behind their primaries get rolled by the teams who move.

That movement argument is just a cop out for those who are intimidated by high ROF's or who simply can't compete.

IN before someone tells me that pump players are more skilled than semi players, or tourney players.

[bryceeden]

You say that, everyone has been saying that a lower ROF would promote movement for years now.

Have you ever played competition ball?

Even when there were no ROF caps I saw nothing BUT movement.
go youtube old tourney vids, run through's, bunkers, movement, movement movement.

The teams that sit behind their primaries get rolled by the teams who move.

That movement argument is just a cop out for those who are intimidated by high ROF's or who simply can't compete.

IN before someone tells me that pump players are more skilled than semi players, or tourney players.

Yes and no, people move alot now, but they moved more back when 13 BPS was the max. Look at some of Chris Lasoya's old stuff compared to him now. And yes, I do play competition ball. If your team doesn't move they don't win that is very true, but people use to make bigger moves.

[Triangle]

Thats why their doing it. They want to make it more spectator friendly and fun to watch. People sitting behind bunkers doing nothing is not fun to watch. This could actually make a big difference in the general mentality and help fix some of what has been broken in the sport.

Are you guys going to local tournies where people that haven't competed on a level above are doing that?

[bryceeden]

Are you guys going to local tournies where people that haven't competed on a level above are doing that?

I'm not 100% sure what your trying to say here. If its about my videos those are begginer tourneys that I run. I've traveled all over and competed, and done prety well.

[Triangle]

I'm not 100% sure what your trying to say here. If its about my videos those are begginer tourneys that I run. I've traveled all over and competed, and done prety well.

Havent seen your videos.

How do you compare your beginners to the AmA+ players?

Are they doing something, or know something the AmA+ guys dont?

[Triangle]

Each team has their own style, some share theirs with others.

Some teams lane, cross the field up and let idiots run into their lanes.

They still win, don't they?

[bryceeden]

Havent seen your videos.

How do you compare your beginners to the AmA+ players?

Are they doing something, or know something the AmA+ guys dont?

Most are the definition of begginer like afew of them had never played paintball befor they got talked into one of my tourneys with thier friends. Some teams are fairly good, but each team can only have one person who has played D3 on it. They are mostly just there for fun and most have no desire to compete on a higher level.

Check this out and tell me how they compare http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rguyy4VLd4

My tourneys are just for fun, and to give a small taste of tourney ball to those considering it.

[Triangle]

Do you have videos of full games, or are you just going to show me highlight reels?

[bryceeden]

Each team has their own style, some share theirs with others.

Some teams lane, cross the field up and let idiots run into their lanes.

They still win, don't they?

Yes, and the differences of teams is what makes it fun. If everyone did the same thing as every other team it would get boaring fast. But from a spectator and TV point of view the big moves and tons of movement are more entertaining.

[Triangle]

Yes, and the differences of teams is what makes it fun. If everyone did the same thing as every other team it would get boaring fast. But from a spectator and TV point of view the big moves and tons of movement are more entertaining.

Is lowering the ROf going to make it for fun?

Is this going to be like affirmative action for paintball?

Make people shoot less so everyone can have play?

[bryceeden]

Do you have videos of full games, or are you just going to show me highlight reels?

I could do some full games, but I don't have any on this computer to upload I'll put some on next time I'm at my shop if youd like. Let me put it this way, most of these teams don't even know what a zone is.

[bryceeden]

Is lowering the ROf going to make it for fun?

Is this going to be like affirmative action for paintball?

Make people shoot less so everyone can have play?

Well, it depends on the perspective. I personally prefer uncapped semi(NPPL style) and I do like high rates of fire. But for alot of people it could make it more fun and attractive, I guess we'll find out now that thats what the PSP is doing. Truthfully going from 15 down to 12 won't make a huge difference I don't think, but we'll see

[Triangle]

I could do some full games, but I don't have any on this computer to upload I'll put some on next time I'm at my shop if youd like. Let me put it this way, most of these teams don't even know what a zone is.
Do you use AIM?
Be so much easier to talk about this there.

[Triangle]

Well, it depends on the perspective. I personally prefer uncapped semi(NPPL style) and I do like high rates of fire. But for alot of people it could make it more fun, I guess we'll find out now that thats what the PSP is doing. Truthfully going from 15 down to 12 won't make a huge difference I don't think, but we'll see

I dont think there should be a BPS, imo. I saw no change in the game and if there were, it was minor.

If someone doesn't like a tourney OR the rules....play another circuit, you dig?

[bryceeden]

Do you use AIM?
Be so much easier to talk about this there.

I don't, I'm actually in a history class at USU right now. The break is about over so I'll have to get back and pick his back up tomarrow.

[bryceeden]

I dont think there should be a BPS, imo. I saw no change in the game and if there were, it was minor.

If someone doesn't like a tourney OR the rules....play another circuit, you dig?

I see what your saying, but with Xball allowing full auto and such there has to be some sort of regulation or people will get hurt. I don't think semi should ever be capped.

[Triangle]

I see what your saying, but with Xball allowing full auto and such there has to be some sort of regulation or people will get hurt. I don't think semi should ever be capped.

I somewhat agree with you.
Up the standards on goggles, don't play, or lower the velocity you're shooting at.
I've been playing since I was nine years old, and being twenty one I have never seen a pair of goggles fail to protect someone.

The events that I HAVE heard about were due to user error.

Failing to change lenses regularly, checking for cracks, falling o them, misuse or they getting messed up in your gear bag during travel.

I'm all for safety, but safety starts and ends with the player.

[Ninjeff]

Why?

What does anyone care?

How many people here actually compete at that level, or have the money and time to do it on a regular basis?

Id like it because it shows a better trend toward "slightly" safer play. Plus that makes laning a smidge harder, and therefore the game a bit more interesting. For me at least.

And of note, though i dont compete at that level (psp) i do play that style on occasion, and though it may not seem like alot, 3 bps can really change somethings up a tad.

[bryceeden]

Agreed, I also have never seen goggles fail.

[Triangle]

Id like it because it shows a better trend toward "slightly" safer play. Plus that makes laning a smidge harder, and therefore the game a bit more interesting. For me at least.

And of note, though i dont compete at that level (psp) i do play that style on occasion, and though it may not seem like alot, 3 bps can really change somethings up a tad.
Playing that STYLE, and playing that way constantly are two different things.

What if I want to go enter a stock car race, or a drag race?
Should they change the rules if enough people complain about it?

So lets ruin it for the people who enjoy shooting quickly.
if thats the case, why not buy spyders which are already capped at 13bps?
Shooting/air efficiency matter, nor will shooting deep into that tank of yours.

If ti makes the game better for you, all power to you, and Im honestly not knocking you in the slightest.

You can turn down your ROF and everyone else can shoot as fast as they want.

[Triangle]

Agreed, I also have never seen goggles fail.

And boy am I glad to hear that.
I've seen so many idiot players, that includes respected AOers and agglets alike, and I've yet to see anyone get hurt, or anything like that.

I hope that day never comes.

[bryceeden]

And boy am I glad to hear that.
I've seen so many idiot players, that includes respected AOers and agglets alike, and I've yet to see anyone get hurt, or anything like that.

I hope that day never comes.

The worst overshooting injury I've ever heard of was the kid Lasoya put in the hospitle. I've actually knocked a kid out(back in my less reponsable days) by overdoing it when I bunkered him in the back of the head(I did not mean to shoot him in the head). Truthfully that scared me badly and is alot of the reason why I feel the way I do about overshooting now.

[Triangle]

The worst overshooting injury I've ever heard of was the kid Lasoya put in the hospitle. I've actually knocked a kid out(back in my less reponsable days) by overdoing it when I bunkered him in the back of the head(I did not mean to shoot him in the head). Truthfully that scared me badly and is alot of the reason why I feel the way I do about overshooting now.

Very much in agreement there, buddy.

[Ninjeff]

Playing that STYLE, and playing that way constantly are two different things.

What if I want to go enter a stock car race, or a drag race?
Should they change the rules if enough people complain about it?

So lets ruin it for the people who enjoy shooting quickly.
if thats the case, why not buy spyders which are already capped at 13bps?
Shooting/air efficiency matter, nor will shooting deep into that tank of yours.

If ti makes the game better for you, all power to you, and Im honestly not knocking you in the slightest.

You can turn down your ROF and everyone else can shoot as fast as they want.


Not that i want to get into a ****ing match with anyone, but "enjoy shooting quickly" isn't exactly the best use of an argument here, as PSP mode requires not fingers that move at 15 shots per second, but at a constant rythm to allow the marker to shoot at 15 bps, or 12 or 13 or whatever.

And the anology of "race cars" to paintball guns is also incorrect, as the POINT of a drag car is to go really really fast, the point of paintball, however is not to shoot fast, but to shoot well. One ball or 15 doesnt matter if its on target.

Also, for those who mearly enjoy shooting fast, they can always uncap the marker and shoot at 25 bps at the chrono, should they get their jollies from such activities.

[Triangle]

Not that i want to get into a ****ing match with anyone, but "enjoy shooting quickly" isn't exactly the best use of an argument here, as PSP mode requires not fingers that move at 15 shots per second, but at a constant rythm to allow the marker to shoot at 15 bps, or 12 or 13 or whatever.

And the anology of "race cars" to paintball guns is also incorrect, as the POINT of a drag car is to go really really fast, the point of paintball, however is not to shoot fast, but to shoot well. One ball or 15 doesnt matter if its on target.
Why wouldn't you need a constant rhythm to shoot 15bps?
The gun isn't going to shoot less or stop shooting if you pull the trigger 19 times a second, or 16 times a second. It will still shoot, but it will be capped at 15bps.

My bad, i didn't realize that shooting fast wasn't enjoyable.
People get pumped full adrenaline, they enjoy the thrill of it all.
Try shooting as fast as you can on a gun thats limited to bps. Tell me what happens.

The logic wasn't flawed at all--Why should the standards or rules be changed for people that aren't as good?

[Ninjeff]

My point was in PSP mode YOU are not shooting 15 bps, the GUN is. In PSP mode i didnt need to move my fingers at 15 shots/second to aceive 15bps. Thats why it is its own mode. Other wise it would just be semi.

And why does lowering the bps cap, in PSP mode no less, have anything to do with skill. You need LESS skill to shoot 15 bps in psp mode than you do to shoot 13 bps in standard semi.

[Triangle]

My point was in PSP mode YOU are not shooting 15 bps, the GUN is. In PSP mode i didnt need to move my fingers at 15 shots/second to aceive 15bps. Thats why it is its own mode. Other wise it would just be semi.

And why does lowering the bps cap, in PSP mode no less, have anything to do with skill. You need LESS skill to shoot 15 bps in psp mode than you do to shoot 13 bps in standard semi.
My apologies, I didn't see your use of the word 'mode' after PSP.

Aside from that I've yet to see a reason why they SHOULD lower the BPS cap.

[Ninjeff]

My apologies, I didn't see your use of the word 'mode' after PSP.

Aside from that I've yet to see a reason why they SHOULD lower the BPS cap.

Fair enough.

Maybe it has to do with the paint sponsers wanting to save money? I dont know. But i can imagine how much paint (cost) would be saved, total, by saving a few bps at a tourney.

[RogueFactor]

It seems to me they cant figure out what they want to do. First it was semi-only. Then, when they couldnt enforce that, ramping was allowed with a 15 bps cap...this all after it was previously an agreed upon(between manufacturers) 13 bps cap.

Now...12 bps?

Are these numbers arbitrary? Were they chosen for a legal reason?

How are they going to enforce this cap on someone pulling semi-auto? How does someone who can shoot semi-auto keep themselves from shooting more than 12 bps?

[Triangle]

How are they going to enforce this cap on someone pulling semi-auto? How does someone who can shoot semi-auto keep themselves from shooting more than 12 bps?

I wonder.

[Cold Steel]

The cap will be enforced the same way it was this past season. Parabolic microphones, PACT timers and radar guns.

Shooting fast is fun, no doubt. BUT, considering the PSP partners are industry giants, maybe they've re-thought the whole situation of putting fast-shooting, ramping technology in the hands of 13 & 14 year old newbs. Wonder if the ramping technology and the dwindling number of players we keep hearing about, wonder if one is a result of the other?

Maybe that same technology has adversely effected the game (Xball) that they made and now try to promote. The guns and boards keep getting faster and more sneaky about where the cheats are. Breakout modes have been the rage for all of 2007. Ever watch an NXL match? There's a huge lack of movement in the game. Every point is the same until someone gets sloppy. Heck they even had to add bunkers to the field sets so players could stand a chance to make the back corner bunkers on the break.

Maybe they've seen a serious decline in playing skill. Have you noticed that the top skills a tournament player can have today is mowing lanes and reloading quickly. When was the last time you witnessed skilled snap-shooting? Want a good laugh? Find any player with less than 4 years of experience playing tournament style paintball, ask him what a back player is and what his job on the field is. The answers are pretty entertaining.

Maybe they've noticed how the rest of the industry tends to adopt the PSP standard for ROF. Every manufacturer from Tippmann to Spyder to Angel to DYE has been quick to fall into line. Maybe this decision to decrease the ROF is an effort to reign in some of this massive firepower that the industry has put out over the last 3-4 years. Considering all the good this firepower has done the sport as a whole, maybe its time to go another direction.

Maybe....

Just food for thought.
CS

[bryceeden]

How are they going to enforce this cap on someone pulling semi-auto? How does someone who can shoot semi-auto keep themselves from shooting more than 12 bps?

They won't, PSP isn't semiauto. The NPPL still has no cap and probably never will as truthfully people can't shoot all that fast in a true semi mode(although they can definatly break 12bps) in a game situation.

[bryceeden]

Maybe they've seen a serious decline in playing skill. Have you noticed that the top skills a tournament player can have today is mowing lanes and reloading quickly. When was the last time you witnessed skilled snap-shooting? Want a good laugh? Find any player with less than 4 years of experience playing tournament style paintball, ask him what a back player is and what his job on the field is. The answers are pretty entertaining.


WOW, do you even watch/participate in tourney ball? The upper level teams still snap alot and do it well. Truthfully if you watch most front players will slide thier hand down and only use one finger on the trigger(most people can shoot more accuratly that way) and they snap alot, but its to gain field control not just to snap. A player's job really varys team to team and alot of different styles work well, so what they say could be true for thier Backplayers.

[TnDeathInc]

WOW, do you even watch/participate in tourney ball? The upper level teams still snap alot and do it well. Truthfully if you watch most front players will slide thier hand down and only use one finger on the trigger(most people can shoot more accuratly that way) and they snap alot, but its to gain field control not just to snap. A player's job really varys team to team and alot of different styles work well, so what they say could be true for thier Backplayers.

Well the MSPA tourneys i see locally, and bigger ones on dvd, people snap shot becuase someone is holding their *** down by ramping, two back players in 5 man are balls to the wall shooting the lanes and supressing while calling out other teams locations. Yep snap shots occur but they are forced due to what --- bps. Now pump tourneys i could agree with a lot of snap shotting. now if you are wtaching older tourneys and compair them to nowadays, its just sad the down turn of player skill, winning now dependent on spray paint with a computer ramping chip, with some skill of know where others are. I mean fat °°°°° on pb tourneys are winning, you dont even have to be fit to win, WTF

I appreciate you defending something you agree with and probably enjoy, but its the exact reason paintball is fading.

[bryceeden]

I mean fat °°°°° on pb tourneys are winning, you dont even have to be fit to win, WTF
This is an opinion at best. Sure, fat people play for good teams and win. But that is nothing new its always been the case. Being fit is a huge advantage. Look at the fitness of the top pro teams, they're pretty fit.
I appreciate you defending something you agree with and probably enjoy, but its the exact reason paintball is fading.
High rates of fire is not why the sport is "fading", there are alot of reasons why its not growing now and overshooting is one of them but not the only or even the biggest reason. I hate ramping, but fast semi is alot of fun. Like Triangle said different styles for different people. Fields just need to enforce overshooting rules better.

Plus on the snapshooting when have people ever snap shot when it was not forced? Thats the whole point of a snap shot. I almost never snap in pump tourneys, no one on my team does and we almost always win, snapping is an attempt to gain the upper hand and post. Why snap if you don't have to?

I like the 12 BPS cap idea for PSP, we'll see how it goes but with the exception of afew bigger moves I don't think much will change the difference between 12 and 15 is not really that much.

[Warbird 007]

As far as the goggle systems failing. A player on my team has in two seperate incidents broken opposing players lens on there goggles. He as well as I play tournaments that use PSP ramping the 15.8 bps that is permitted. I can attest to goggle systems failing when hit with that ROF. And I can tell you it's not due to a cheater board or greater ROF than the 15.8.

Personally I would love to see the ROF capped at 12 vs 15. I do feel the level of movement would increase. It would alter some of the dynamics of how the sport would be played. Maybe its due to locking down a field with the 15.8 is to easy and that same control that was there before would be nullified with the lowered ROF. IDK but it would be intresting...

[TnDeathInc]

Opinion, but everything here is a an opinion. And everyone's will have a certain following, does it make it fact no. Paintball not fading do to overshooting. Take a look at the new folks at the field and see if they come back if overshot while they are renting tippmans. Why do you think that so many fields now separat the groups. One of course is skill, but the other is becuase they want return business, they want new people to have a good time and return and invest in markers etc...

I for one would like to see ramping go totally away. If a person can pull 20 shots without any type of chip or SUPED up rt effect, i say good he shoul be able to kick peoples ***. put a ramping gun in a 12 years olds hand that just started...why not let 12 year olds drink too, its about that stupid. I am not stupid i know its all a push to sell more paint and make more money and the companies have to keep up with what the other companies do..

the question is....my 68 chevelle has about 550 horsepower, it currently is being prepped to have the frame sandblasted and rebulid it from the bottome (is started at the motor) it can probably do upwards of a speed of 100mph, but will i do that?

I look at gunsthe same way, my x's even my RT with 1200 psi can do 18-21bps, do i do it? at the chrono sure to show agglets what old guns can do....do i do it on the field, 9/10 no, unless someone is doing it to me. Remove the ramp, let it be skill to who can pull the trigger. My x's are set to semi. whats yours?

[Cold Steel]

[QUOTE=bryceeden;5209]WOW, do you even watch/participate in tourney ball? QUOTE]

Oh, if only you knew. I'd say that over the 24 events I've ran this year, I've seen more than my share of tournament action. I've had tons of opportunities and experiences that led to the formation of my opinion.

Ramping has only been tolerated for the last couple of seasons due to the inability to police it. There are some leagues that say that they're semi only, those leagues are only fooling themselves. The players in those leagues know how to not get caught. Whether it be by running their guns in SEMI with their debounce set to make the gun shoot stupid fast, or by having a designer cheat built into the software of their guns. Only a complete idiot would hand over his gun with an activated cheat to a league official. The leagues that have allowed the ramping have done the only thing they could do to gain some measure of control over the situation and keep the playing field level. But still, not an event goes by that we don't have multiple suspensions of players for being caught on the field exceeding the ROF cap.

Players have become too dependent on their firepower. This has in turn has caused the game to become less team oriented and become more based on individual play. If the ability to police ramping guns suddenly appeared on horizon, I'd outlaw ramping in my league tonight. Until that day comes....

CS

[TnDeathInc]

[QUOTE=bryceeden;5209]WOW, do you even watch/participate in tourney ball? QUOTE]

Oh, if only you knew. I'd say that over the 24 events I've ran this year, I've seen more than my share of tournament action. I've had tons of opportunities and experiences that led to the formation of my opinion.

Ramping has only been tolerated for the last couple of seasons due to the inability to police it. There are some leagues that say that they're semi only, those leagues are only fooling themselves. The players in those leagues know how to not get caught. Whether it be by running their guns in SEMI with their debounce set to make the gun shoot stupid fast, or by having a designer cheat built into the software of their guns. Only a complete idiot would hand over his gun with an activated cheat to a league official. The leagues that have allowed the ramping have done the only thing they could do to gain some measure of control over the situation and keep the playing field level. But still, not an event goes by that we don't have multiple suspensions of players for being caught on the field exceeding the ROF cap.

Players have become too dependent on their firepower. This has in turn has caused the game to become less team oriented and become more based on individual play. If the ability to police ramping guns suddenly appeared on horizon, I'd outlaw ramping in my league tonight. Until that day comes....

CS

Well said and in 100% agreement

[bryceeden]

Ramping has only been tolerated for the last couple of seasons due to the inability to police it. There are some leagues that say that they're semi only, those leagues are only fooling themselves. The players in those leagues know how to not get caught. Whether it be by running their guns in SEMI with their debounce set to make the gun shoot stupid fast, or by having a designer cheat built into the software of their guns. Only a complete idiot would hand over his gun with an activated cheat to a league official. The leagues that have allowed the ramping have done the only thing they could do to gain some measure of control over the situation and keep the playing field level. But still, not an event goes by that we don't have multiple suspensions of players for being caught on the field exceeding the ROF cap.

Players have become too dependent on their firepower. This has in turn has caused the game to become less team oriented and become more based on individual play. If the ability to police ramping guns suddenly appeared on horizon, I'd outlaw ramping in my league tonight. Until that day comes....

CS

I totally dissagree on the game being less team oriented. In all the events I've put on, and the tons of events I've played in I've never seen a team win just because they shot faster, but differnet people different experiances. Allowing ramping because it can't be policed is a copout for not wanting to do some extra work. I don't allow ramping in any form because my insurance doesn't allow ramping in any form. Policing it isn't really as hard as you'd think, just check boards befor the event and they have to be locked. As far as cheater chips just learn what to look for they are marked you just need to know where to look. If its a board that allows cheater codes or is cheater chipped the marker isn't legal and the player must use another. Bounce is also really easy to check. Plus come on, a ref can hear and see if someones marker is too fast. The ref then confiscates the marker and opens the grip after the game, no lock = one less player for the day and a strike for the team(in my tourneys any blatent diliberate cheating by a player = a strike for the team, three strikes and the team is out for the year). In the history of my events I've had three people caught using ramping all three were instantly DQ'd(and are now boycotting my events or banned for other reasons) If you kill the cheating attitude once and for all with extremely harsh rules it seems to stay gone.

But we are now officially very off topic so I'm done with my rant for good(at least in this thread)

[Cold Steel]

That all sounds good. I just don't believe its an efficient means of handling 130+ teams over the course of a weekend as is my situation.

The aftermarket stuff may have distinct markings but any of the factory chips are capable of being reflashed. Making them virtually indistinguishable. Just hearing or seeing it isn't enough. Absolute proof is required. Also keep in mind that there are other means of cheating (blue tooth technology).

As a league, we're entering our 5th season (2008) in our struggle with cheater chips, boards, and guns. The easiest and only enforceable solution to this problem has been to allow ramping within the rules, and then give those rules some teeth with harsh penalties for those that choose to step outside of the rules.

CS

[bryceeden]

So are you affiliated with the CFOA or similar? I'll give you most places can't do 100+ teams and that would make things different. I draw around 30 different teams each season and they don't all make it to every event. So its easier to keep an eye on them all, plus I have a reputation of taking no crap so teams that play dirty usually don't bother to come. That is one of my gripes in the bigger tourneys I play in is most of the time they barely check your velocity let alone anything else, they could atleast pretend to care.

Anyway yes, I am interested to see what the 12BPS change does for the PSP and I have got to stop derailing this thread.

[Cold Steel]

Yes, I am affiliated with the CFOA.

I think we have similar outlooks on how we conduct our events, with varying experiences. The biggest difference being just sheer numbers.

If you're ever in the southeast around event time, hit me up, and be my guest at a CFOA event.

CS

[Triangle]

Yes, I am affiliated with the CFOA.

I think we have similar outlooks on how we conduct our events, with varying experiences. The biggest difference being just sheer numbers.

If you're ever in the southeast around event time, hit me up, and be my guest at a CFOA event.

CS
I have been to a few CFOA events and let me compliment you.
Good job--They're pretty awesome.

[Cold Steel]

Which events? What team?

CS

[Triangle]

Which events? What team?

CS

I'll get some dates for you, i didn't compete, only watched

[bryceeden]

Yes, I am affiliated with the CFOA.

I think we have similar outlooks on how we conduct our events, with varying experiences. The biggest difference being just sheer numbers.

If you're ever in the southeast around event time, hit me up, and be my guest at a CFOA event.

CS


I'll do that.

[p8ntball72]

I think this BPS cap has a larger scope than we realize, or I just may be into conspiracy theories.

New markers are made from cheaper materials, therefore may have a shorter "wear life" if pushed to max BPS. The industry may have lobbied the promoters to lower the cap to help drive sales for this years inferior product.

Insurance for anything over 10 bps has been a problem and premiums for ramping or mode markers is quite a bit more than lower bps policies.

from a promotion point of view its win win, and the only people that should balk at the new cap are the players that are skilled enough to outshoot the cap under unassisted means.

With the growing numbers of young disposable players... {the walmart generation}
liability for fields, promotion companies, and ultimately manufacturers is higher due to the fact that they dont sell common sense with the markers.:twocents:

[Triangle]

I think this BPS cap has a larger scope than we realize, or I just may be into conspiracy theories.

New markers are made from cheaper materials, therefore may have a shorter "wear life" if pushed to max BPS. The industry may have lobbied the promoters to lower the cap to help drive sales for this years inferior product.

Insurance for anything over 10 bps has been a problem and premiums for ramping or mode markers is quite a bit more than lower bps policies.

from a promotion point of view its win win, and the only people that should balk at the new cap are the players that are skilled enough to outshoot the cap under unassisted means.

With the growing numbers of young disposable players... {the walmart generation}
liability for fields, promotion companies, and ultimately manufacturers is higher due to the fact that they dont sell common sense with the markers.:twocents:

They stopped making Rainmakers years ago.

[Triangle]

http://nppllive.com/

battle born and victory going at it.
Lets see.
There's NO movement, but no one is shooting either.


CLEARLY people who shoot fast don't move.

[TnDeathInc]

please xplain that last one and what you are referring to?

[Triangle]

please xplain that last one and what you are referring to?

No you.

[bryceeden]

http://nppllive.com/

battle born and victory going at it.
Lets see.
There's NO movement, but no one is shooting either.


CLEARLY people who shoot fast don't move.

Noone moves until Sunday, its not agg everyone knows that.

[BigEvil]

Just remember boys, lowering the ROF to 12 or 13 bps all but makes it unnecessary for players to rig their markers to cheat. I have decent fingers, and I can pull 15 on semi. I could probably sustain 12. Those guys could do it easy I bet.

Insane ROF at the pro and near-pro levels can be expected and accepted. Problem is, that the insane shooting stuff works its way down to the rec ballers out on the weekend playing at the local fields. It is a HUGE detriment to the growth of the sport for many reasons. It's very difficult to get your average noob hooked on paintball when someone is throwing a wall of paint at them every game and all they have to shoot back with is a M98.

[Triangle]

Just remember boys, lowering the ROF to 12 or 13 bps all but makes it unnecessary for players to rig their markers to cheat. I have decent fingers, and I can pull 15 on semi. I could probably sustain 12. Those guys could do it easy I bet.

Insane ROF at the pro and near-pro levels can be expected and accepted. Problem is, that the insane shooting stuff works its way down to the rec ballers out on the weekend playing at the local fields. It is a HUGE detriment to the growth of the sport for many reasons. It's very difficult to get your average noob hooked on paintball when someone is throwing a wall of paint at them every game and all they have to shoot back with is a M98.

I think you just suck at playing, Scott.


God help you, come Tunaball.





(Anyone know the odds for his one on one with HLD?)

[bryceeden]

(Anyone know the odds for his one on one with HLD?)

I don't know either of them, but I'm going to have to bet on Big Evil because of his awsome sig.

[grEnAlEins]

(Anyone know the odds for his one on one with HLD?)

It depends if you want to bet on the general outcome or on the spread:pimp:

[Triangle]

It depends if you want to bet on the general outcome or on the spread:pimp:

Everytime you post I'm glad i didn't troll you on AO.


EXCELLENT use of that smiley.

[mongoose]

i think 12 bps is a good idea...

[Triangle]

i think 12 bps is a good idea...
Why?

[Ninjeff]

http://nppllive.com/

battle born and victory going at it.
Lets see.
There's NO movement, but no one is shooting either.


CLEARLY people who shoot fast don't move.

That was the WORST announcer ive ever heard.

I mean, truely truely bad. Really pathetic.

[BigEvil]

I think you just suck at playing, Scott.


God help you, come Tunaball.







(Anyone know the odds for his one on one with HLD?)


I suck at pretty much everything so paintball wont be any different. ;)

[BigEvil]

It depends if you want to bet on the general outcome or on the spread:pimp:

Talk of HLD and "Spread" makes me very uncomfortable :ooo:

[BigEvil]

Why?


After thinking about it further - lowering the rof to 12 bps also makes using a mech gun feasible again. Not that is earth-shattering or anything, just thought I would throw it out.

[Triangle]

Talk of HLD and "Spread" makes me very uncomfortable :ooo:

<3

[RogueFactor]

After thinking about it further - lowering the rof to 12 bps also makes using a mech gun feasible again. Not that is earth-shattering or anything, just thought I would throw it out.

I think thats what they are trying to do...but its too little too late.:wall:

[grEnAlEins]

I think thats what they are trying to do...but its too little too late.:wall:

Negatory... I think that between the Kult or Kaye, the Cocker kids, Palmers fans, and the pump player that mech is poised to pick up the slack. Will the mech market surge right away? Doubtful. Will they become way more popular? I bet that they will. Quality is going to become a hot-button issue sooner or later. A lot of the electro-fad markers just lack the quality that the surviving mech brands have. I think mech will come back in a big way. It may never be overwhelmingly popular again, but I could see it retaking a large portion and maybe even the majority of the market share.

[grEnAlEins]

Talk of HLD and "Spread" makes me very uncomfortable :ooo:

Yucky.
Which brings me to my next point... We need a vomiting emoticon for situations like this, and ones with too much alcohol.

[BigEvil]

Yucky.
Which brings me to my next point... We need a vomiting emoticon for situations like this, and ones with too much alcohol.

Good point