Thinking above my pay grade: Gavity and time

[BigEvil]

I actually learned something yesterday.

We have all heard of Einstein theory of relativity... This sort of pertains to it. You may or may not know, that part of the theory explains why it is impossible for a person to travel at the speed of light. Even if someone were on a spaceship that was approaching light, time would be moving much faster than here on Earth. I forget the exact numerical relationship, but say you were traveling for one year in space at that speed. When you returned, you would have only aged 1 year, but the people you left behind would have aged 50 years.

If I understand correctly, gravity can actually slow time. The absence of it makes time speed up. It was mentioned how even the chronometers on our satellites must be engineered in a way to overcome the the lack of gravity. Without such precautions, the clocks on them actually move faster than the ones on Earth, causing issues, as one would imagine.

Also how time slows down near large gravity wells, such as Jupiter, or even more so in the vicinity of a black hole.

Interesting stuff. Like I said, way above my pay grade.


Im going back to look at some °°°° or something now cus my head hurts.:thinking:

[TnDeathInc]

That was very cool thinking.

[tymcneer]

Be careful... Mental gymnastics without warming up is a great way to sprain ones brain...

Cool thought process... Add this to the mix...

As you approach the speed of light, your apparent mass increases. As your mass increases, the local gravity also increases, slowing time back down again. I wonder if these two forces would balance each other out?

Guess it's time to build a FTL drive and test the theory ;)

Ty

[Dark Side]

Be careful... Mental gymnastics without warming up is a great way to sprain ones brain...

Cool thought process... Add this to the mix...

As you approach the speed of light, your apparent mass increases. As your mass increases, the local gravity also increases, slowing time back down again. I wonder if these two forces would balance each other out?

Guess it's time to build a FTL drive and test the theory ;)

Ty



The more mass an object has, the "more" gravity it exspells. So it seems you could be right.

[BigEvil]

Guess it's time to build a FTL drive and test the theory ;)

Ty


I have been considering building a 1:1 scale mock up of a mkII viper...can we fit one in there :D

[TnDeathInc]

Hey marty mcfly, er... i mean big evil dont you have a flux capacitor?

[Neppo1345]

Apparent mass =/= Actual Mass

It's actual mass that determines gravity.

[BigEvil]

Hey marty mcfly, er... i mean big evil dont you have a flux capacitor?

I think I have one in the box with my spare cocker noids. :D

[Ninjeff]

I think I have one in the box with my spare cocker noids. :D



If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits 88mph, your gonna see some serious ****....

[LinearGoose]

http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=28

[BigEvil]

http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=28


HAHAHA

[tymcneer]

Apparent mass =/= Actual Mass

It's actual mass that determines gravity.

Unfortunately, my memory of HS physics doesn't have enough of this type of thing left... And I am far too lazy to go through the mental stretching exercises to understand the apparent versus the actual in this problem...

Calling Stephen Hawking! Can you explain this ****?

As to flux capacitors... they are only required for time travel... going FTL requires Dilithium crystals, a warp engine and some anti matter... I wonder where I can pilfer some anti matter?

Ty

[BigEvil]

I wonder where I can pilfer some anti matter?

Ty

Ebay

[BigEvil]

Apparent mass =/= Actual Mass

It's actual mass that determines gravity.


Does that change as something nears the speed of light? He did say "Apparent gravity"

I am a noob at this stuff.. so bear with me :D

[Mechanic79]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/

and then

What the "bleep" do we know
http://www.whatthebleep.com/
(Yes this is a movie title and not me trying to "round" the cus filters)

[flank]

watch this, like I thought we could actually get somewhere if we could actually travel at the speed of light. The universe is to big, it's almost unfathomable how large it is.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zJ8CUz4MZ1M

and if you like that video watch this one, its comparing the size of the planets to the sun, then the sun to other stars
http://www.astroshorts.com/view_video.php?viewkey=d9607ee5a9d336962c53&page=1&viewtype=&category=tf

[michbich]

Just a useless info for you guys. If you had something the size of a pea that is only constructed of atoms stuck together with no free space between them and without there electrons, that pea sized item would weight 250,000,000 tons. So you can guess how black holes are created and why it's "black". Gravity is so strong that it bends the light itself without reflecting any rays back.

[Mechanic79]

watch this, like I thought we could actually get somewhere if we could actually travel at the speed of light. The universe is to big, it's almost unfathomable how large it is.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zJ8CUz4MZ1M

and if you like that video watch this one, its comparing the size of the planets to the sun, then the sun to other stars
http://www.astroshorts.com/view_video.php?viewkey=d9607ee5a9d336962c53&page=1&viewtype=&category=tf

That stuff is great! I think of "fractals" as I watch and experience the universe in the way the movies portray.

[Mechanic79]

Just a useless info for you guys. If you had something the size of a pea that is only constructed of atoms stuck together with no free space between them and without there electrons, that pea sized item would weight 250,000,000 tons. So you can guess how black holes are created and why it's "black". Gravity is so strong that it bends the light itself without reflecting any rays back.

This link has a brief interactive diagram explaining black holes.
http://www.thinktechnologies.com/portfolio/demos/Blackhole.html

[flank]

This link has a brief interactive diagram explaining black holes.
http://www.thinktechnologies.com/portfolio/demos/Blackhole.html

thats awesome, I've always liked the wormhole theory on black holes.
thanks for sharing, and if you guys like the first two videos I posted then you'll like this

video explaining how big the universe is and shows the farthest humans have seen into space(ignore numa numa guy at 1:30 into the movie plz)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mcBV-cXVWFw

the future of the Earth
http://www.astroshorts.com/view_video.php?viewkey=4c64c85ca5b5690ee529&page=1&viewtype=&category=tf

and if you like all these you should probably watch the universe on the history channel every tuesday at 9p.m. est. Season 2 just started and there have been 2 episodes so far. Wow I just got to watch episode 2 that I recorded, it's about black holes, wormholes and even the possibility of white holes(the opposite of a black hole, just blows stuff out and doesn't really have an entrance like a black hole, just an exit) and they even addressed the clock in space issue for BigEvil. They even said that the start of the universe could've came from a white hole suddenly out of no-where spiting matter out for only a brief time, and that there could be more that one universe, which absolutely blew my mind.

[punkncat]

I am no Einstien, but I tend not to believe that portion of his theory.
Time as we know it is a measure relative to Earth and its daily rotation and travel around the sun. Humankind developed reliable ways to measure it based on these cycles as we were here on Earth and being affected by its gravity.
When you go into space there is less gravity, and therefore less pull on the items by which we measure time. Mechanical clocks, quartz and even the nuclear clock would all have a different measure of "drag" or pull on it when not within the field of Earth, or at least as close to it. Therefore the weight of a mechanical clock, and even so far down as to the molecular level would be changed and therefore give different results as they would here.

I cannot comprehend how regardless of the way a device would act different under those circumstances, that actual time could be different just because of speed. If we consider for a moment, back in the 50's traveling at the speed of sound was challenged with a set of theories that also proved untrue.

The thing I see as the major problem for us is friction. How do you keep even the small amount of matter that is present in space from burning up the craft as it approches that velocity?
We would have to develop some way to either shield the craft from the matter, or to go into some sort of phase shift, different dimension, etc. to avoid matter.
Thats just my :twocents:

[tymcneer]

This is getting deep, or is that bent, warped... something...

You all are making my brain hurt!

BTW, nice links. I will finish looking through them tonight, and maybe have something a little more intelligent to say tomorrow.

Ty

[Dark Side]

The thing I see as the major problem for us is friction. How do you keep even the small amount of matter that is present in space from burning up the craft as it approches that velocity?
We would have to develop some way to either shield the craft from the matter, or to go into some sort of phase shift, different dimension, etc. to avoid matter.
Thats just my :twocents:

Dude, watch Startrek, they do it all the time. :joke:

Anyhoo. Just for a moment humankind could feasibly travel at the speed of light. Who cares how we do it. The amount of energy it would take to propel us to that speed and then stop where needed is unattainable. We would need one hell of a fusion chamber.

Or maybe the answer is not in a craft being merely able to travel at light speed to anywhere it can, but say a pair of gates creating a worm hole; point A to point B style would be far easier to power. Plus the start/stop issues should be taken care of.

[tymcneer]

Massive orbital Gauss Cannons would allow for some very serious acceleration to some very scary velocities... To slow down, you'd need to slingshot around a number of stars/planets/celestial bodies... Kinda like cosmic pinball!

The problems of shielding the craft from particle damage are daunting! I'm sure some bunch of brainiacs are working on it...


Ty

[PneuMagger]

... It was mentioned how even the chronometers on our satellites must be engineered in a way to overcome the the lack of gravity. ...

I hate to break it to you scott, but there is the force gravity acting on satellites and space shuttles. They are simply traveling fast enough horizontally to the ground that they are in a perpetual state of "falling". They are forever falling and "missing" the earth. Although there is technically less gravity in space simply due to the fact that the force due to gravity is inversely proportional to the square of the distance... there is really not a worthwhile difference in the gravity.

But yes, because of their excessive relative speed, their chronometers need some adjusting to deal with relativistic issues.

Read Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" and "Universe in a Nutshell". Both great reads if your into this stuff.

[Papa_Smurf]

I shouldn't have read this thread....head hurts now...

[TnDeathInc]

Doesn't take much to exceed your pay grade when you are an illegal and paid with booze for a days work huh?:nana:

[BigEvil]

Doesn't take much to exceed your pay grade when you are an illegal and paid with booze for a days work huh?:nana:

SI

[Peachy12]

You guys better be careful you don't hurt yourselves with all this intellectual thinking... you should just stick to things you know and wont mentally hurt you ... like paintball for instance

[Mechanic79]

A fun episode about parallel universe's.

FUTURAMA
The Farnsworth Parabox
Season 5, episode 10

[tymcneer]

Can you herniate your brain?

Ty