Who here knows 'cockers

[BonesJackson]

Who knows them as well as I know Matrix parts? I want to pick someone's brain. Ability to discern meaningful upgrades from the snake oil a huge plus.

This is for mech stuff only; I've no interest in making electrocockers.

[Chris]

Let me know what you need to know, I'll answer what I can. I believe MostPeople is fairly knowledgable on cockers too.

[BonesJackson]

My first real 'baby' in paintball is my 2k 'cocker. Zak went the Mag route, and against all advice I went with Autocockers. Zero regrets. I bought mine the day the 2ks came out, and am told the batch was hand delivered by Bud Orr to the store (not totally improbable, really, as Worr was in SoCal and the shop was in Moss Landing, maybe you've been to J&S?). This is supported by its absurdly low serial number for a 2k.

Only did 3 notable upgrades to it, and this was all back when I didn't really have a clue what I was doing. I replaced the front block pneumatics with ANS Extreme ones. I don't remember what my logic was for choosing them, but it has served me very well. I replaced the stock bolt with a WGP venturi style one. Putting a venturi bolt in was just something we all did back then, who knows. Lastly, I put one of WGP's shiny hinge frames on it.

Somehow, barely knowing how to time the thing myself I installed everything and got it working. What's really funny is years later after studying timing diagrams and learning about setting things correctly, I decided to get my baby running like it should. To my amazement I had managed to not only perfectly set the LPR, but perfectly time the thing as well.

Anyway, I set it aside for a while and delved deep into Matrix stuff. I have harvested an entire arsenal of totally pimped out Matrices, while the 'cocker waited patiently, languishing on the shelf. Two weekends ago I brought it out because it was rainy and thought it would be good to play mech. It started leaking horribly from the front block. It also wouldn't recock and it felt like the timing was off. I was in no position to tear it down and mess with it at the time, so I brought it home.

I decided it wasn't fair to this poor gun to leave it malnourished and unloved. It was time for some essential upgrades. I picked up a shiny black Shocktech Bomb (because I'm totally gay for them after seeing them in action), and am going to install that soon.

My real question is this:
It seems to me the most important upgrades I can get at this point are the 4-way (got that covered with the Bomb), the JAM bolt (I've heard good things but would like to know more), and some lower tube internals. Despite actually owning a KAPP Autococker valve tool for ... 9 years? Tonight was the very first night I took my valve out. I think it's time to get some lighter, perhaps more efficient valving, but I don't know where to turn. What are like the top lower tube internals that people rave about these days? I know there are a TON, because basically every company who made 'cocker parts made their own valves and springs.

[Chris]

Your front block leak was likely coming from the 4-way, I say this because you mention that it had been sitting for some time which makes it likely that the o-rings had dried out. I had this happen to my Revenge back in December if you recall. The fix was a little Dow 33 on the o-rings, and now she runs like a champ.

I wont comment on your choice of ANS pneumatics, nothing wrong with them, but Im totally gay for the Palmers stuff.

Back in the day, I switched my cockers out to the Shocktech 3:16 valve. It was good, and I seem to recall being able to run a lower pressure as well as get more shots out of my 68/3k tanks. Now, this may have also been due to the fact that I spent considerable time getting the valve spring and main spring matched with the valve and input pressure. I would have picked up the tornado valve or the Freeflow internals, but didnt have the money to do it.

These days, people are suggesting that CCM makes some pretty good lower parts kits. I have not used them, and I can not comment; but I will say that I am about to pull the trigger on a CCM kit for my Jackal RDL build.

Here's my take on lower tube kits:
Valve - the stock valve is pretty decent. Unless you are going for super ultra mega low pressure, the stock valve will be fine. The trick to optimizing it is to spend some time tuning it with a good spring kit, I've always found the Madman kits to be superb.

Hammer - Heavy hammers were really popular back when I was playing in early 2000's. I never cared for them, as I felt that a lighter hammer allowed you to use lighter main springs, lighter valve springs and overall lower pressure in the gun. A heavier hammer will require heavier springs, you can use this information as you see fit in your tuning.

Springs - Madman.

Cocking rod - get what looks best. There is no difference.

Threaded IVG - a must. this allows you to sweet spot your mainspring, and help maintain consistency.

My suggestions:

If you have a valve already, and want to go the cheap route - Pick up a madman spring kit for $12 and spend some time tuning the gun.

If you want ultra low pressure operation - AKA Tornado valve. I hear that the Rocket valve is another option, but I have not used one. However, at half the cost, it may be worth looking into.

All others - Pick up a Shocktech, Palmers or maybe the CCM valve. They are all right around $30.

Im not going to suggest the Eclipse valve, or any of the more expensive valves, because I feel that the benefit you get is so small, especially once you have tuned your valve, that they aren't worth picking up.

[Chris]

I forgot to mention; nearly all valves share the same design. The exceptions that come to mind are the Tornado and Rocket valves. Performance should be close when comparing most valves. I like the aftermarket valves over the stock one, because the aftermarket ones have larger openings at the mouth of the valve. Some also have an hourglass shape to the valve stem...but that's not where your restrictions are.

[BonesJackson]

Uhm, I was under the impression all IVGs were threaded. Hell, that's how I used to have to set my velocity before I had an adjustable HPR.

Sigh, why did Ravi Chopra have to fade out of existence? Time was I could just go to his site and use it for most of my informational needs. Yeah, you can still find all his archived articles, but there have been 10 more years of design since he last reviewed anything. He gave *very* high marks to the AKA stuff as I recall, but I don't know if other companies came out with stuff that rivaled or beat it (CCM?).

One thing I know for sure I need is a smoother sliding bolt. This WGP one is just trash. I have an ANS GX-3 with ANS' bolt, and it's a night and day difference. The back block will slide just by tilting the gun forward or backwards. I know JAM bolts are rare; this guy has one http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/misc-paintball-items/97133-splashkitsrock420-parts-sale-trade-thread-updated.html but I don't know if it's for 2k or pre2k.

[mostpeople]

That bolt looks like a 2k

[Cunha]

Unless something weird is going on and you are actually chopping paint I definitely wouldn't recommend a jam bolt.

The AKA lightning bolt is great and expensive to prove it (even used)

I really like the CCM bolts because the bolt pin is secured by a single O ring very light weight and simple. It also allows you to cut the back of the bolt off leaving less to hit you in the face.

Lower tube internals truth be told make very very little difference. Stock 2k cocker valves are totally fine if not functionally identical to most valves. If I was to change valves I would buy a PPS LT valve the aka valve again is sweet but expensive and its main purpose was to be as LP as possible (and still work well) the PPS valve just works well despite higher operating pressures it has a lower opening pressure as far as I remember. That will mean you can potentially use a lighter mainspring (hammer spring) and with that a lower LPR setting which should yield some unmeasurable benifits.

Besides the PPS LT valve and the AKA valve I would want a stock valve. I would prefer a stock valve over every other aftermarket valve besides those two.

LPR just needs to work and be externally adjustable. ANS parts aren't known to be great. I'd go with a microrock but you will probably want an SCM. 3 ways the bomb belsales and pps are nice. PPS is the shortest belsales is smoothest bomb is basically in between.

Ram's dont matter if they work and are smooth they are doing what they need to be. Stock brass 2k rams are sweet rams if they arent bent (harder to find than you think thanks to cocker owners sucking) basically any non bent ram is good if it is smooth enough. You can clean them underwater by cycling them by hand while submerged in soap and then in oil and as much as it takes and you might see some improvement.

Hammer no biggie a nice smooth stock one is prefect.

Cocking rod EVIL made a short cocking rod basically a BOLT it is non adjustable and you will need to cut it and loc tite it into place. Benefit of the short cocking rod is again less length out the back to hit you in the face.

CCM bolt and EVIL cocking rod = about a half inch length reduction on a normal autococker. CCM beavertail or other rod and aluminum type will allow you to cut and rethread the rod to match the new length of your bolt and cocking rod.

I used to want to match "all the best" parts on my crap but I definitely realized that it makes very little difference. Good LPR is nice but any adjustable is good. The later model WGP adjustable LPR's unless they are damaged somehow are totally all you need. 4 way..stock can get pretty dang decent but definitely belsales palmers shocktech and IMO that is the order. Reason is that I heard the shocktech needs higher pressure in it to seal up with its barely sealing O rings. PPS is a pain if you ever take it apart and it is so short that you will find it finicky if you arent a full blown badass at tuning. Belsales is a good mix of both. Simple style and good.

If you notice it is late and this post will probably be really messed up.

As for my guns my last one was a CCM series 5 autococker and i have had 3 of those total and 2 2004 J2's The CCM parts are not the best but definitely good enough I never replaced them on any of my guns. If I was to replace one thing though it would be the LPR with a PPS LPR. Their rams are pretty dang decent and the 3 ways are fine and CCM is a good company that is actually in business.

CCM pneus are pretty too.

Oh and the CCM front block and front block screw are by far the best. The screw is aluminum .. way lighter and just looks nice and the front block is machined nicely to be light and simple. Can't beat those two parts.

CCM bolt, CCM Front block, CCM front block screw, PPS microrock, Belsales 4 way, Good ram, PPS valve, Good HPR

That is my build sheet for any cocker and i will back it up if you want. Most nice bodies have front blocks that match them and i'd use the matching one and add the CCM front block screw.

And if you have a 2k cocker you have a threaded IVG unless you have a merlin which will have the older style setup. CCM makes an aluminum IVG which is cool they also have aluminum valve jam nuts and aluminum valve set screw all of which are cool parts that save weight where weight savings are usually forgotten about.

You will notice a big difference between trigger frames with how the gun feels to shoot. Best sear and trigger plate are ones that you hand polish the contact points PERFECTLY absolutely utterly polish them. You do not need a roller sear but IF you get one only the belsales and shocktech are good otherwise don't waste your time it will wear our and start feeling like crap.

Also do not lubricate your trigger plate with anything other than dry graphite lube unless you want to take the thing apart and clean it all the time.

As far as hinges go the Eclipse hinge and the CCM hinge are my favorite. the later model shocktech hinge is nice too. Eclipse really is the money here though. CCM is cool because of the integrated beavertail but the trigger pull doesn't match the eclipse for whatever reason.

WGP hinges can be made pretty nice. There is an adjustable cam available for them that lets you tune them a bit better.

Eclipse hinge that has a trigger without any set screws on either side is really the one to get as far as hinges go.

Stock sear unless it is crap and stock trigger plate unless it is crap is a perfect starting point for a really trick trigger job. Any decent frame will get the job done, shotty WGP's look bad though and throw off the groove. ANS frame, benchmark, dye, professional..whatever. All good and just need good parts in them.

Good luck

[Chris]

Scroll down the page to see the AKA hammer kit (http://akalmp.com/misc.html). This is how spring tension is adjusted on the Merlin, and it is my only complaint. Then again, once it's adjusted you just leave it alone.

Cunha - You just ruined my day. I picked up the Jam bolt to try out on my Jackal. I figured that it was nice and open, so it couldn't hurt.

To build on what you said about pneumatics, there were issues early on with various pneumatics and there were actually differences. The STO rams were significantly smoother than the stock WGP rams. Palmers also had a reputation for building a quality ram. ANS had the smallest one around.

Like I said before, I have no experience with the CCM stuff, the Works cockers were just coming out when I quit playing.

The thing with cockers, it was true when I played, and it's true now; make it look good. In the end, most of the components are going to function well enough that you can't tell the difference between parts. Generally you can buy whatever it is that looks best. I still believe that your best investment is spending time and tuning what you have. If I was told that I couldn't tweak it, I'd take a stock cocker thats been tuned by a competent monkey over some super ultra high end marker that was slapped together by some kid living in a van down by the river.

[BonesJackson]

Funny story- I just took out that WGP venturi style bolt and put my old original stock 2k one in. Slides infinitely smoother, and I think it's lighter too. Keeping that in for now.

What's wrong with the JAM bolt? If I wanted to seriously eliminate any chance of chopping paint, why don't I want it? The absolute WORST THING I hate about 'cockers is when you get a breech break and shell wedges in between the main tube and the bolt and you have to spend the rest of the day wrestling your bolt.

[mostpeople]

First time i've heard someone dog on ccm internals =/

[Cunha]

Who dogged on CCM internals? The earlier valves (not too long ago) were known for farting and the current valves I have seen notable improvement when replaced by the PPS valve. Other CCM pumper guys I have talked to also run totally stock CCM pumps with an LT valve and maybe a fatty regulator and that is one thing I forgot to mention their inline isn't awesome either.

I will add some praise for CCM parts here just so mostpeople doesn't hate me ; ) almost all of their components are my very favorite. Their aluminum threaded IVG is the sweetest, their jam nut is aluminum and also the sweetest, their valve set screw is aluminum and awesome. Their hammer is beautiful and top of the line never really seen a prettier one but it isn't something i'd spend money on if I had a good one already. Their bolt is my favorite, their trigger frames are great although not my number 1. Their bodies are by far my favorite that is why I have had 5 of them. Only autococker I like better than CCM j2's and series 5's is a really good merlin and that is just because they look tougher and I have used and liked them longer. CCM bodies are top of the line made extremely well unlike WGP stuff that can just be way way off. Their feednecks are threaded with either angel threads or a nice proprietary threading both of which are awesome and don't require a stupid tall WGP feedneck which is the reason I don't like most WGP bodied autocockers.

Quite frankly CCM rules but you can't expect a company to be perfect, their valve and HPR are both not awesome. Not bad..but not awesome.

Chris is right in pretty much everything he said. As a side note if I was to have a autococker with parts from only one brand than it would definitely be PPS. Their stuff is as good or better than any other autococker part that was made. Their rams are super robust (I prefer the older ones because they are a bit smaller and just looks a little sleeker than the new "Quicker" rams which have an embedded QEV) but either way they are awesome. PPS doesn't make lower tube internals other than the valve or bolts and all of those parts would be CCM parts in my gun.

For the most reliable ram I'd say it would be an SMC ram (moody paintball, freeflow..early belsales) or a PPS ram which is a custom clippard ram if I recall. Both are not rebuildable and both won't need rebuilding.

None of those rams are black though if you want black it is definitely the belsales 44 mag / eclipse ram or the WGP MP4. MP4's can be great to aweful right out of the box. I bought like 30 of them a while back (none left now) and some of them required rebuilding just because they were assembled so poorly and bogged down with cheap grease lube. When they are cleaned up they smooth and definitely good looking and 2 embedded QEV's is awesome.

Almost all IVG's are threaded. Early autocockers and merlins are not threaded. I am not sure when they started threading them. I don't mind either way. Alot of earlier guns were threaded for threaded IVG's as an aftermarket mod so its not something you have to worry about unless you buy an empty older body from someone.

[Chris]

First time i've heard someone dog on ccm internals =/

I said I know nothing of them...who shat on them?

[Chris]

Almost all IVG's are threaded. Early autocockers and merlins are not threaded. I am not sure when they started threading them. I don't mind either way. Alot of earlier guns were threaded for threaded IVG's as an aftermarket mod so its not something you have to worry about unless you buy an empty older body from someone.

I believe that this happened in '98. About the same time that WGP began drilling the lug adjustment hole in the top of the body.

[mostpeople]

I believe that this happened in '98. About the same time that WGP began drilling the lug adjustment hole in the top of the body.

Yes this is my recollection as well.

My reflex body is a 98, has threaded IVG, and lug adjustment hole, and of course pre2k front block screw. And that °°°°ty °°°°ty no adjustment feed neck.

I wish I was in my shop. I would cut it off, smooth it down and turn it for a real feedneck.

[Cunha]

Thats what I would guess too.

[BonesJackson]

I like the total sidetracking going on here. Seriously, the ram is not an issue. I really like my ANS ram and have a hard time believe I'd see *any* difference in anything with even the world's greatest most perfectly tuned ram lovingly hand crafted by Haephestus himself in the forges of Mt. Olympus.

Likewise, the LPR is not an issue, nor is the cocking rod, the beavertail, the back block, the pump arm, the actuator rod, the banjo bolt, the shroud, the ball detent, or even the pull pin.

From this discussion, the only real thing of value I have picked up is that I should pick up a Maddman spring kit. Compulsive sells them for like $9. I think I'll buy some.

In other news, I tried to separate my ANS 4 way from my front block so I could replace it with this Shocktech Bomb. I removed everything else, removed the barbs, and tried to unscrew it. No dice. I wrapped leather around it and tried to wrench it off. No dice. I wrapped leather around it, clamped it down in the lathe, and tried to grab the front block and unscrew it that way. The damn thing just kept spinning. I clamped it down REALLY HARD and it bit through the ano (sweet wrench marks). It still mocks me, attached to that front block. Damnable thing. I will have my vengeance.

[Chris]

You probably loctited the 4-way. Use fire to loosen it up.

Fire is always the answer.

[Chris]

From this discussion, the only real thing of value I have picked up is that I should pick up a Maddman spring kit. Compulsive sells them for like $9. I think I'll buy some.


Nonsense, you also learned that valves are nearly identical in performance once tuned with the spring kit. Thats pretty useful.

Likewise, the LPR is not an issue, nor is the cocking rod, the beavertail, the back block, the pump arm, the actuator rod, the banjo bolt, the shroud, the ball detent, or even the pull pin.

If you've ruled all of that out, you should check your trigger springs. They could be the source of your problems.
:smarty:

[mostpeople]

yeah use heat, fire blowdryer etc..

I think you can also use boiling water as well.

[Chris]

yeah use heat, fire blowdryer etc..

I think you can also use boiling water as well.

No, only fire can be used. :bump:

[BonesJackson]

You probably loctited the 4-way. Use fire to loosen it up.


It came this way from ANS.

The WGP hinge trigger has no spring. It has that kludgy bent piece of metal instead.

[mostpeople]

No, only fire can be used. :bump:

lol

[Chris]

The WGP hinge trigger has no spring. It has that kludgy bent piece of metal instead.

Now we know what the problem is, you shouldn't have a hinge trigger.

Seriously though, hopefully we have helped a little.

[BonesJackson]

Oh yeah, man. Definite improvement. I came to this thread like this :candle:
Now I'm like this :wall:

[Chris]

Oh yeah, man. Definite improvement. I came to this thread like this :candle:
Now I'm like this :wall:

Get the spring kit, mess with your springs.

Use heat to loosen the existing 4-way. Replace it.

You probably have to reverse the front and rear 4-way hoses to make it work when you install the Bomb.

[BonesJackson]

Yeah, I know. They started out with the sliding trigger crossed up. Then you add a hinge trigger and you have to reverse them so they're all in line. Then you replace the 4 way with a Bomb and you have to cross them up again. It all comes 'round full circle.

[Tracker]

no need to hate on hinges.. some people like em

i like hinges, they allow me to shoot after, and easier

now as far as my hinge preference goes, i love the eclupse frame due to uts size, however the way the frame actuates the threeway leaves a lil to be desired.. but it works, and thats the important part

WGP frames agre great hinges,, just huge, and lacking adjustments (what youll need is an orracle cam adjuster, it replaces the saftey and actuallly gives you post travel adjustment

the kapp frame, is the best fram for true linear actuation on the 3 way, but, they can sometimes bind, especially if you dont keep your stuff impeccably clean, and they are really hard to find

dye hinges are kind of like a cross between the eclipse (size) and the WGP (3way activation) if you can handle the way the trigger kicks forward, they are a great option, i would reccomand an actualy DYE one over a 32º one, just because i have never put alot of faith into anything thats a knockoff of dyes already not so fantactic tolerances

rams, i know alot of poeple out there really like the ANS mini-ram.. myself.. i just dont see it, im a bigger fan of (in no particular order) Eclipse ram/Belsales Mag.44, CCM, older belsales ram, clippard ram, shocktech/sto ram (shockech supposedly has a slightly longer throw than the STO but other than that they are identical), and maybe one of the WGP mp4 rams, though their swanky fact is they have QEV's built in, and with a mech QEV's are pretty much un-nesscary

LPR's. umm i hate the Jackhammer, but i think its mostly because of the size.. im a big fan of the palmers mircorock.. one of the oldest, and thill one of the best, i have an SCM on my revenge, and it works.. and i suppose that the most important part

3 ways(yeah i know its technically a 4 way, but i dont care) im a big fan of the coupler-less designs, DYE PMP 3 way being my favorite, shocktech bomb works unter the same principal i think the CCM does as well, the one thing the DYE wins for though, is you can adjust it from the front, because the conter, switching shaft is exposed out the front, you can just losen the setscrew, and turn it as required, the CCM may also work the same way, and have a little knob for you to get a grip on, other, coupler style options i like are.. Belsales hollowpoint, WGP CT threeway (the one that came on the orracle, also front adjustable) the palmers quickswitch is good too

valves, i have 3 reccomdations.. #1 orracle valve (cheap, simple, effective, really nice if you polish the black stuff off the valve stem), #2 palmers LT valve.. awesome valve in every sense of the word.. worth every penny, #3 tornado valve.. fantastic valve for all pressures, just crazy expensive

i highly reccomend a ball detent with a plastic ball, my personal, and long running favorite is the macdev detent.. best part is, you can still find them because its the same detent that goes on the 04-06 cyborg

pump arms, i reccomend a CCM or an AKA

cocking rod is a cocking rod, all depends on if you want pretty, functional, or minimalist

bolts, i reccomend a macdev (if you can find one) an eclipse, a ccm, a belsales (which is actually a venturi) or a lightning, be warned, ive heard many a horror story about superfly bolts use at your own peril. i think all cocker bolts are better when made from plastic

and as far as hammers go, uness your buying somethign specfic, because you have a preference, any hammer will do, its better if it has at least one nylock though, that way you can get some friction on the cocking rod, nothing more embarrasing than having a cocker stop working mid game and not know why... because your cocking rod vibrated loose, and i too have never been a big fan of the heavyhammer movement,

and definitly buy a spring kit

hope some of that helps

Tracker

[Chris]

no need to hate on hinges.. some people like em

i like hinges, they allow me to shoot after, and easier

Tracker

There's just something wrong with you :D

[BonesJackson]

Ok, so knowing what we know, do I want to pick up a Tornado valve for $40, or a complete FreeFlow lower tube assembly for $50? Leaning towards FreeFlow.

Basically a treasure trove here http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/misc-paintball-items/113070-big-autococker-part-out-hybrid-aka-freeflow-shocktech-palmers.html

[Chris]

Ok, so knowing what we know, do I want to pick up a Tornado valve for $40, or a complete FreeFlow lower tube assembly for $50? Leaning towards FreeFlow.

Basically a treasure trove here http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/misc-paintball-items/113070-big-autococker-part-out-hybrid-aka-freeflow-shocktech-palmers.html

The entire lower tube assy is a good deal. Pick that up.

[Tracker]

i dunno how to check, but try and find out if its a tungsten hammer and avoid it like the plague, those things do naughty things to your lower tube

Tracker

[boarder2k7]

yeah use heat, fire blowdryer etc..

I think you can also use boiling water as well.

That will make short work of wet hair :ninja:

Boiling water is probably the safest thing to try first. 212 F isn't hot enough to cause any damage to anything, but should soften the locktite. If you have some decent gloves, you could work it while it is still hot as well for better luck, just be careful because wet gloves=hot gloves!

-B

[Gee Tee]

I've always used and rated Belsales kit - but it's easier for me being UK based

The Angry 45 slider frame had a fantastic pull to it, one of the nicest mech frames I've shot on a cocker. Unfortunately they are no longer made, and only available second hand if you can find one. I also give top marks to the supercharger/evo valves, Hollowpont 3 way, Magnum ram, rex dialler hammer kits & delrin bolts.

The QEV's on rams are bit OTT for mech, and make the action a bit too fast for most fingers to cope with = chop city.

Best LPR I've used to date is the Palmer micro

[BonesJackson]

I've always used and rated Belsales kit - but it's easier for me being UK based

The Angry 45 slider frame had a fantastic pull to it, one of the nicest mech frames I've shot on a cocker. Unfortunately they are no longer made, and only available second hand if you can find one. I also give top marks to the supercharger/evo valves, Hollowpont 3 way, Magnum ram, rex dialler hammer kits & delrin bolts.

The QEV's on rams are bit OTT for mech, and make the action a bit too fast for most fingers to cope with = chop city.

Best LPR I've used to date is the Palmer micro

What I like best about this post is you covered all the areas I expressly said "I'M NOT CHANGING I DON'T GIVE A °°°° ABOUT THIS I ALREADY HAVE COMPONENTS I LIKE". Ignoring that, you just charged right ahead and gave useless conjecture. Thanks.

[Chris]

I've always noticed that my 'cockers require slightly more maintenance than my 'mags. Generally, they both just require a few drops of lube in the ASA before each day of play; but every once in awhile the cocker needs some adjustment to keep the pneumatics finely tuned. I'd have to say that its temperature related, because when I get them set up on a nice warm day and everything is working oh-so-smoothly, my 'cocker won't cycle on a cold morning.

That being said, Bones, Id make sure that you had a wire detent on your 'cocker too. The ball detents wear out eventually, and they just dont look good. The wire detents work great, are cheap to replace and just plain look awesome. :D

[BonesJackson]

Had a new one happen to me today. When I last worked on my gun I guess I didn't tighten down the grip frame screws super tight. During a game they worked themselves loose, which added a sort of gap between the body and grip frame. This meant the sear would no longer catch the hammer, so the gun wouldn't recock. I made a makeshift clamp with my hand, trying to hold the thing together tight enough so it would function while shooting at the other team (I had great field position). A teammate watching from the sidelines in what I can only imagine was confused disgust eventually ran over midgame and lent me his Ego.

[mostpeople]

What I like best about this post is you covered all the areas I expressly said "I'M NOT CHANGING I DON'T GIVE A °°°° ABOUT THIS I ALREADY HAVE COMPONENTS I LIKE". Ignoring that, you just charged right ahead and gave useless conjecture. Thanks.

What was the point of this? Why are you slamming on someone who came here with advice when you asked for 'cocker advice?

[BonesJackson]

What was the point of this? Why are you slamming on someone who came here with advice when you asked for 'cocker advice?

What was the point of this post? Why are you criticizing me for not being impressed by baseless assertions on a bunch of components I am specifically not changing on my gun?

:confused:: So yeah I want to know about these lower tube internals and maybe bolts. Not interested in hearing about other components
:freak: : LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT PALMER LPRS
:confused: : ...
:freak: : ALSO THESE SLIDER FRAMES I LIKE THEM

[Chris]

Come on Bones, we stopped talking about lower tube kits and bolts around post 12. Besides, if you read GeeTee's post, he stated that the Belsales KIT is good stuff. That includes the lower tube kit, the frame, the bolt, the pneumatics (except that the Palmers was found to be better)

It's completely related to your initial question, with some clarifications for good measure.

It sounds like you're getting a little sandy today :smarty:

Anyways, Im sure you know this, but dont go overboard on tightening your grip frame screws down. I've stripped many threads in my younger days because I was upset something had come loose, and decided to tighten down a little extra for good measure.

[mostpeople]

Bones this isnt SA, we don't treat each other like °°°° around here 'because we can.' If for no other reason a lot of us know each other in real life. Hell I played ball with your brother 3 months ago.

And I will be seeing your brother and YOU at DDay, we are in the same unit.

So please, knock it off.


And chris, what about a small dab of blue locktite?

[Chris]

And chris, what about a small dab of blue locktite?

I try to avoid locktite whenever possible, its just a personal preference thing. That being said, about the only place I use it is on the 4-way and ram just to keep them from moving about.

[mostpeople]

I try to avoid locktite whenever possible, its just a personal preference thing. That being said, about the only place I use it is on the 4-way and ram just to keep them from moving about.

yeah man I'm not talking about coating the threads, rather maybe just a dab of it which will not 'lock' it down, but lightly glue it down you know?

That's the °°°°° with autocockers though, they vibrate so much °°°° comes loose a lot haha.

[Gee Tee]

What I like best about this post is you covered all the areas I expressly said "I'M NOT CHANGING I DON'T GIVE A °°°° ABOUT THIS I ALREADY HAVE COMPONENTS I LIKE". Ignoring that, you just charged right ahead and gave useless conjecture. Thanks.

Nice - you jerk