Efficiency....whats your definition?

[RogueFactor]

Consider for a moment, that if the purpose of the game is to eliminate your opponent---whats the true definition of efficiency for paintballers?

Is it marker based or player-based?

Is it...
Shots per tank?
How deep it your marker will go into the tank before it experiences drop-off?
Air used per shot?

OR

Shots per elimination?

[xmagman]

I chose: How deep into the tank before shootdown

This one makes the most sense to me. What is the point of getting 1800 shots from a tank when the last 50 or so have major shoot-down issues. But if you have an efficient marker with good regulators on it and the tank has good regulators this shouldn't be a major issue. I think that most markers now days allow you to shoot deeper into the tank than in the past.

Example: My Cyborg gets almost 2000 (about 1900 give or take a few) shots out of a 68/4500 tank before I get shoot down. But the last 50 or so the ball pretty much rolls out of the barrel so I would say I really get 1850.

[Cell]

I would consider efficiency as something I AM not my marker/tank.

I never really worry about efficiency, I go into games of speedball podless (We all know it as the long lost concept, Hopperball),

So its not really a matter of my marker being efficient, it is I who needs to be efficient.

I guess that would be more based on shots per mark, but I guess when I used to think about markers being efficient it was more so about how much one could shoot before they had to fill the tank. Not sure what category that is, more of a number then a concept/category.

[xmagman]

I never really worry about efficiency, I go into games of speedball podless (We all know it as the long lost concept, Hopperball)

Actually, it's not entirely lost. For practice, my team will play entire games with just a hopperful of paint. This forces you to choose your shots carefully and be mindful of limited paint. There is no point in shooting 4 pods of paint if you can't hit anything. :wall:

[Cell]

Actually, it's not entirely lost. For practice, my team will play entire games with just a hopperful of paint. This forces you to choose your shots carefully and be mindful of limited paint. There is no point in shooting 4 pods of paint if you can't hit anything. :wall:

Yet your say you only do that in practice, why do you then carry 4 pods in a tournament scenario if you have practiced your shots to only use one hopper? You say yourself "Why shoot when you cant hit?"

I'm not arguing you, but I imagine your going to say I carry pods just in case.

[GT]

at the end of the day its shots per fill. 2k from a 68/4500 is great for AKAs and some cockers. I think my mags get around 1200, which still isnt bad.

[RogueFactor]

What is the point of getting 1800 shots from a tank when the last 50 or so have major shoot-down issues.

If it only takes 1 shot to eliminate a player, whats the point of getting 1800 shots from a tank when it only takes 5 balls to eliminate everyone in a 5 man game?

[tymcneer]

An interesting question you bring up... For my purposes, I would choose air per shot. The shots per elimination is actually a much more interesting concept, though. Unfortunately, SPE are much more difficult to turn into hard data, whereas APS is relatively easy.

Voted for shot per elimination... I guess that means that I am a HORRIBLY inefficent player. Only 10-12 eliminations at the scenario this weekend, and I shot 1500 balls! Yikes! I suck! (Some of this was due to the paint bouncing like superballs. I was shot on the lense, and the ball bounced!)

Ty

[xmagman]

If it only takes 1 shot to eliminate a player, whats the point of getting 1800 shots from a tank when it only takes 5 balls to eliminate everyone in a 5 man game?

While it may take only 5 balls to eliminate the other team....how realistic is that? It's not realisitc at all given how today's game is played. Even the most accurate players would be hard-pressed to meet that goal.

Yet your say you only do that in practice, why do you then carry 4 pods in a tournament scenario if you have practiced your shots to only use one hopper? You say yourself "Why shoot when you cant hit?"

I'm not arguing you, but I imagine your going to say I carry pods just in case.

You're right. I would say it's just in case. If I need to shoot a lane, I can do it. If I need to force my way into a bunker, I can do it. The extra paint is for insurance. And let's face it, accuracy by volume is the best way score eliminations.

[Dark Side]

at the end of the day its shots per fill.

I'm agreeing with this idea.

[RogueFactor]

While it may take only 5 balls to eliminate the other team....how realistic is that? It's not realisitc at all given how today's game is played. Even the most accurate players would be hard-pressed to meet that goal.

I agree it isnt realistic. But shouldnt that be the goal we strive for? Kinda like a no-hitter for a pitcher? Or a 300 bowled game?:happydance:

How todays game is played will change. It already is.:banana::banana:

[BigEvil]

I agree it isnt realistic. But shouldnt that be the goal we strive for? Kinda like a no-hitter for a pitcher? Or a 300 bowled game?

How todays game is played will change. It already is.:banana::banana:

Fixed :wthumpup:


Here is how this all works for me. Yes, it does suck to run around with a mag and a 90/4500 tank. Since I started gun-whoring, I run those other more efficient ones on a 68/4500. However, I find myself doing the same thing no matter what - when the tank goes down to 2000 - or anytime I pass an air station - I fill up. Im anal like that. Same thing with paint. How many people go out on a field with less than 2k in their tanks anyhow if it can be helped?

[riflemanwi]

shots per tank.

[Mind'sEye]

To me efficiency is an accepted standard which has come to mean shots per tank. It is a legitimate measurement, and I don't see any reason to change it's meaning. If you had a pump gun that got 5 shots per 12 gram you'd be looking for a more "efficient" pumper.

You're question is more related to bps and placed shots vs spray and pray. Each has it's place, depending on the game and conditions.

[FiXeL]

IMHO, a gun that you can drive nails with is the most efficient. It does not matter howmuch a gashog it is, how heavy or accurate it is, all that matters is that you are comfortable with the marker to such a point it becomes part of you.

[RogueFactor]

To me efficiency is an accepted standard which has come to mean shots per tank. It is a legitimate measurement, and I don't see any reason to change it's meaning. If you had a pump gun that got 5 shots per 12 gram you'd be looking for a more "efficient" pumper.

You're question is more related to bps and placed shots vs spray and pray. Each has it's place, depending on the game and conditions.

I chose my words carefully...

Consider for a moment, that if the purpose of the game is to eliminate your opponent---whats the true definition of efficiency for paintballers?

Is it marker based or player-based?

[robnix]

Forgot one -

Eliminations vs. number of times eliminated.

All of the above are moot if you can't stay on the damn field.

[RogueFactor]

All of the above are moot if you can't stay on the damn field.

Good point.:coffee:

[Mechanic79]

I need as much air as paint I'm carrying. So it's relative. No point having paint if you can't shoot it.

[Papa_Smurf]

at the end of the day its shots per fill.

Thats my vote too.

[Babylon 5]

Shots per fill
I live out of town and there is nothing more annoying than running out of air before your day of playing at a friends house is over, then making a 45 min trip back to town.

[Ninjeff]

But arent "shots per fill" "how deep into the tank you can shoot" and "air used per shot" in a completely different catagory than
"players eliminated"?

Here is why, the first 3 selections are purely marker based. Meaning they wont change no matter who is shooting the gun. Whether its myself, Ollie Lang, or little billy down the street the marker will shoot the same numbers no matter what.

The players eliminated scenario is different as it has less to do with the marker than the player. In other words Groovy is far better at pump play than myself, where he may use 20 balls to get X players out, i would use 40. However, i am more accurate with my mag than he is, so the reverse of the above would be true.

i agree both statistics are important, but you cant really choose. As marker "efficiency" (say, shots /fill) is important when shopping for a new gun, but "shots/elimination" is more important when shopping for a new teammate.

[RogueFactor]

:lol2:
... but "shots/elimination" is more important when shopping for a new teammate.

Where do you shop for that?...Teammates-R-Us?:nana:

[Ninjeff]

:lol2:


Where do you shop for that?...Teammates-R-Us?:nana:

You dont have a Teammates-R-Us where you are at? Man, i thought those were everywhere.....

[druid]

can't vote because of newbie status :dodgy:....

My definition of efficiency is consistancy - period.

That encompasses a great many things...among them being;
* fps within my preferred range (less than 4 fps deviation)...
* shot placement - within a 12" area at 75 feet, 6" area at 45 feet...same elevation and windage on the shot.
* same air usage from a specific tank size and valve combination...regardless of whether i can get deep into a tank.
* ROF is consistant with my settings and hopper feeding it...

I just want the marker to shoot the same each time I fire it, no matter what brand it is or how much it costs.

I have a Stage 5 *** (original 1/99) that operates at ~110 psi @ 279 fps with a standard deviation of less than 2 fps over the chrono. Dwell settings of my Spitfire board, in conjunction with my CP reg and Clippard QEV, allow me to keep the shoot down to about zero. I use a Freak back/AA front (14" total) and bore my paint so I get terriffic accuracy and my tanks are both equiped with GuerrillaAir regs. The 88/45 has the FUKU model and the 114/45 has the Myth. With the ***, I get about 1900 good shots out of the 88 and well over 2600 with the 114. The 88 leaves me with about 250 psi in the tank before I see it start to snooze the shots...and the 114, about 225-300 before she craps out on me.

One thing I'd like to add is that it took an awful-lot of testing of a ****-load of different prodcts to get her where she is today. Getting the upgrades past their 'break-in' periods was almost the worst and creating a record of 'what-combination-of-ups, performed-_____' was the absolute worst and most back-breaking task. Now that I got her where I want her, she purrs like a happy kitten.

[ta2maki]

IMHO, a gun that you can drive nails with is the most efficient.....

Well, you can use pretty much use any gun as a hammer. :smarty:


From an outlaw play perspective, where air is limited, it would be shots per tank. A gun that has the potential to eliminate 2000 players is far better than one that has the potential of 1200 in a day.

[Cell]

And let's face it, accuracy by volume is the best way score eliminations.

100% Disagree

[xmagman]

100% Disagree

Agree to disagree.

[tymcneer]

Accuracy by volume is [b]one[/] way to score eliminations...

Good field position, accurate shooting skills and patience will also score eliminations.

This last scenario proved that vast volumes of fire only increase the odds of making the elimination. We were holding back the Blue team at a ridge. The Blues actually got a very good plan together, and charged us in mass. They had vast amounts of firepower, and slung massive quantities of paint at us. Our side, due to the distance from the ressurection(sp?) point, was told to place their shots and conserve paint. This encounter ended with far more Blue team players headed back to the dead box than Red players. I conside this proof that accuracy by volume is not the be all and end all of paintball playing.

BTW, I picked up 4 eliminations at that point, using a pump gun! I might have fired 100 rounds, but I doubt that!

Ty

[ghostdog2019]

I would have to go with shots per elimination. Never been one of those guys to spray and pray. Actually as a front man I prolly shoot very little amounts of paint. Most of my shooting occurs in run downs. I have always had the mentality of one shot one kill. I know there are no snipers in painball but I make sure all of my shots count whether its for a little cover or shooting someone's barrel that is slightly peeking out from a bunker. I would have to say in 11 years of play I don't think I have shot more then 300 paintballs in one game speedball or woodsball.

[bryceeden]

In a marker its shots per tank, in a player its points per elimination.