Can paintball become more 'adult oriented' again [Archive]

riflemanwi

12-12-2007, 04:42 PM

i dont know, ive seen way too many 13 year olds with mommy and daddies money with brand new gear every year at my fields.. the thing is, their way to scared to play, or they sit in back and camp. atleast put that gun that costs more than all my gear alone to use once and a while..i rember there was one kid a few years back decked out in all new 05 dye stuff with a brand new DM5, he laughed at my emag and said i was old school for wearing 03 dye hybred pants.. thats allright, he wasnt saying that after he saw the emag fireing and i bunkered him 3 times...he deserved it tho, he wiped a few games against me. also, he got put on the feilds team because he was rich and pretty much sponsered the team, but he sucked.. / End Rant ..:glare:

michbich

12-12-2007, 04:42 PM

The easiest way would be to raise prices. Plain and simple. Mommy and daddy wouldn't be backing them as much.

OR, Have a height limit to enter. Like on circus rides :cheers:

http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/5/12/12/f_untitledm_3bfa2b4.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/5/12/12/f_untitledm_3bfa2b4.jpg&srv=img33)

RogueFactor

12-12-2007, 04:54 PM

DARN! (Inside joke):evillaugh:

I hope so. Would be nice. What happen to age limits to play?

p8ntball72

12-12-2007, 04:58 PM

First,
Only sell markers to 18 and older {like it says on the damn box}

If kids are allowed, minors should be "required" to be accompanied by an adult on the field... {as stated in most Waivers}

Increase the price of all Paintball products, including paint.

Totally exclude minors all together, with fields and stores "selecting" who participates.

Kids suck, they should all be kept on a leash till 18... in a perfect world there would be no children interacting with adults in any recreational activity.:cool:

michbich

12-12-2007, 04:58 PM

The industry doesn't care from where the money comes from, just as long as it keeps coming in. Prevent one company from taking advantage of parents that think too highly of there kids (suckers) and another one will take it's place.

etjoyride

12-12-2007, 05:59 PM

Don't kill me for this

I am 16 (almost 17) and have been playing since i turned 10. With the exception of my black maxx and piranha (first two markers) and my vlocity, I have payed for all my own gear. I have well over 1000 of my own money invested in the sport as well as hours working on my equipment and modifying my markers.

My parents almost never pay for my paint and have never paid for any of the tournaments i play in.

My teammates and I are all 18 or younger. 3 of us pay for all of our own gear, the fourth has his parents pay for a majority of his gear but works his *** off on their ranch.

I belive big evils original intention was to get rid of all of the rich kiddies who "play" the sport but actually destroy it(wait, i guess he was asking how to make it just adults so forget this part). Paintball is a great way for families to spend time together as well as meet new people.

Some of the best friends i have made come from paintball, why would you want to take that away?

I would love for the wipers and rich mommy boys to be gone, but if all the kids were gone then this sport would dwindle even more.

Raising prices would not work in my opinion. hat would mean less players overall, but those who already play on their parents credit card would keep coming back.

Hope this doesn't Kill me...

punkncat

12-12-2007, 06:36 PM

Since most kiddies are broke and either dont have money to spend or spend their parents $$ anyway

You know, I tried several different ways to get a poll of underaged players to determine how they were coming up with paintball money. I have an intrest in that my kids want to play, but I am not into just giving them money to play. Not only can I not afford it, but I feel like if they earn the ability to play then they will respect the equipment, the game, and the fact that paint is expensive.
The first one was poorly worded. The other two indicated that just about every kid playing paintball paid their own way. Didn't indicate how, but magically were able to play. For those that did say how it was through keeping lunch money and odd jobs like cutting grass.
My scepticism of the replies got me thrown on the cross....
In spite of the fact that knowing several store and field owners here in this area, and seeing the parents wallet come out for well more than half of the kids, I didn't know what I was talking about. My information was bad, my evidence skewed.

CHRONOBREAK

12-12-2007, 06:47 PM

i cant remember who said it, i think it was in the prediction for 08 thread but

"as prices increase and expendable income becomes less, the industry will anturaly correct itself"

i agree, but as stated there are those younger guys that work, or have really rich parents and will still be out to play.

--i was watching an old tourney the other day i think was zap amateur open and not ONE single player, vendor etc was under atleast 25

-my refs were like everyone is soo old...lol

Anjin3515

12-12-2007, 06:54 PM

etjoyride

12-12-2007, 07:19 PM

You know, I tried several different ways to get a poll of underaged players to determine how they were coming up with paintball money. I have an intrest in that my kids want to play, but I am not into just giving them money to play. Not only can I not afford it, but I feel like if they earn the ability to play then they will respect the equipment, the game, and the fact that paint is expensive.
The first one was poorly worded. The other two indicated that just about every kid playing paintball paid their own way. Didn't indicate how, but magically were able to play. For those that did say how it was through keeping lunch money and odd jobs like cutting grass.
My scepticism of the replies got me thrown on the cross....
In spite of the fact that knowing several store and field owners here in this area, and seeing the parents wallet come out for well more than half of the kids, I didn't know what I was talking about. My information was bad, my evidence skewed.

I don't actually have a Job right now per se. I make my money to play through getting good deals on gear and reselling it as well as babysitting for my parents (yes i'm a guy that is willing to babysit my little bro). I also do what i can to save lunch money by going home to eat sometimes and other cost cutting activities. As soon as soccer season ends i'm planning to find a job since my jeep is eating away my bank account as well now.

Oh and i ref at my home field which certainly helps.

Ninjeff

12-12-2007, 07:20 PM

Ok, i know you are not TOTALLY serious about this, but it isnt all gloom and doom with kids playing. I enjoy some of the kids that come to my home field very much.
Some may remember a story i told about giving my emag to a 12 or 13 year old kid to use during a game. To sum up, he was this little dorky skinny kid shooting a 98c i could tell he had "babied" meaning i could tell it was special to him, it went down during a hyperball game, and i gave him my Emag to use. The kid was so happy im suprised his head didnt explode. He played well, and was amazingly thankful after the game. Even called me "mister" which was weird (im 27, im not THAT old am i?). Ive seen him a few more times after than, and he was always very polite and well behaved. He even brought friends out to play one time and made sure he introduced me to them. The kid is awesome.

One of the refs at the field, Dylan, is a really cool kid. He is 16 or so, and despite "looking" like an agg kid (shoots a timmy, wears all proto gear) he is a very respectful kid. Very friendly and just loves to play paintball. He works his *** off at the field reffing, cleaning, and dodging "jabs" from the older regulars. We tease him because we like him. He is a really good kid, and one of the first on my list for a teammate if i play a local tourney this year.

there is another kid who was dropped off by his dad one day, again, well behaved, and played well. A few weekends later i see him AND his dad at the field. He got his dad to try paintball also, and of course, ol pops was hooked. Would up coming every weekend too. even a few where his son wasnt "feeling like waking up". Good guy, and it was nice to see father and son out there tearing it up.

Some of the other young players ive met there have also been very well behaved, and had a good deal of respect for others, and the sport. Sure, there have been a few 'bad apples" here and there, but by and large, i enjoy most of the kids i see out there.

MedicDVG

12-12-2007, 07:21 PM

I think the number 1 detractor to the sport is the player's attitudes. There seems to be a default "I am king ****" type of attitude that pervades the industry and it seems as if every new player feels that in order to be perceived as successful they must have this John Wayne, larger then life, look at me, persona.

We change this by having field owners, promoters, and us adopt a ZERO tolerance policy on, for lack of a better term, 'Agg behavior.'

Shoot higher then the field limit -- thank you for playing, but you are not welcome here until next month.

Bunker someone in rec -- Ditto

wipe in any form of play -- extreme ditto, maybe even 'see you next year'.

etc. etc.

If there were a united front from all then we can change attitudes in ALL players both kiddies or adult.

Its a pipe dream I know, but when I am on the field as a player or ref, I have those thoughts in the back of my mind all the time and I TRY very hard to use them as guidelines on how I play...

Take the Agg out of paintball and I think this sport will grow faster and more healthy then what it is now. :twocents:

Ninjeff

12-12-2007, 07:25 PM

By "adult", I mean it in the grown-up sense, not "***". .....

I, for one, am disappointed. i even went and got a stack of ones when i read the thread title. :nana::sticktongue:

p8ntball72

12-12-2007, 07:32 PM

while I am all for have a more mature attitude on the field.....you cant cut off the kids either...you need to keep bringing in younger players in hope that some of them stick to be full time, long time players....

why do the new players have to be kids?

wouldn't it be just as easy to generate adult new players? no...
this, I would think is a basic problem with paintball today, the industry has shifted to the younger "disposable income" demographic, and has become a domino effect to having produce "cheaper" product to maintain the curve... dog chasing its tail so to speak.
I feel that paintball will further degenerate to cheaper glorified water guns and never regain adult players in large numbers.

The reason adults and long term players are dropping out of paintball is because they are "adults" with adult interests and grown up problems.
I'm 35 and frankly no longer desire to spend 3 to 5 hundred bucks a weekend to have some punks ruin my leisure time.
My group of adult paintballing friends are playing less too, do to poor sportsmanship on the field, getting married, making babies, and a long list other reasons that take up our leisure time.

My last trip to a commercial paintball field reminded me of the days of the roller rink... long lines of kids, waiting for rentals, while "Blondie" blared over the pa system.

Mind'sEye

12-12-2007, 09:58 PM

I've played with many middle school and high school kids, since 1991, who were excellent players with very good attitudes. I think the problem today lies squarely with the present Pro tournament “agg” image advertising model which is designed to appeal directly to teenage boys' inherently aggressive and irresponsible urges. Whenever you see this kind of behavior the question should be, where are the adults? If you let the kids take over and run their own show you'll end up the with “Lord of the Flies”, it's that's simple. Paintball will become more "adult orientated" when responsible adults get involved and take back control of the game.

Anjin3515

12-12-2007, 10:21 PM

why do the new players have to be kids?

wouldn't it be just as easy to generate adult new players? no...
this, I would think is a basic problem with paintball today, the industry has shifted to the younger "disposable income" demographic, and has become a domino effect to having produce "cheaper" product to maintain the curve... dog chasing its tail so to speak.
I feel that paintball will further degenerate to cheaper glorified water guns and never regain adult players in large numbers.

The reason adults and long term players are dropping out of paintball is because they are "adults" with adult interests and grown up problems.
I'm 35 and frankly no longer desire to spend 3 to 5 hundred bucks a weekend to have some punks ruin my leisure time.
My group of adult paintballing friends are playing less too, do to poor sportsmanship on the field, getting married, making babies, and a long list other reasons that take up our leisure time.

My last trip to a commercial paintball field reminded me of the days of the roller rink... long lines of kids, waiting for rentals, while "Blondie" blared over the pa system.

In honesty you have to do both. But you cant just cater to the adult only....eventually the adult players will be too old to play...sure that is long term thinking....but you have to keep the "pond stocked" so to speak. Look long term...10 to 15 years down the line...if you don't bring in some young blood your base of players is bound to shrink.

Can you think of any sport that DISCOURAGES kids from getting into it?

I think that the fields and industry need to realize the attitude that is out there and try to fix it. How...??? They need to start seeing that this "agg" type attitude is running off other players and do something to control it.

I play with my 15 and 13 year old nephews and I have never once had anyone ever complain bout them...why....because I make sure they play with sportsmanship and safety. I don't let them act like idiots...I take personal responsibility for their actions and they know if they ever want me to take them again they must act mature.

Ninjeff

12-13-2007, 12:26 AM

You know, on this point i have watched alot of tourney videos, and by and large the whole lot of em have this "winwinwin mememe" attitude. The agg attitude, as it were.

Except one.

Ollie Lang.

Im not a fan boy or anything, i could care less about Olli or the Ironmen or Dynasty or who ever. But i have noticed that in every interview Lang does, he is always polite and has great sportsmanship. I'll look for the video, but i was watching one and they interviewed the losing teams of the semifinals and everyone else was "well, we did this, we did that, we didnt win because of ____ or we need to win, we lacked _____" what ever.

Lang on the other hand simply said that he got out played, the team played well, just that the other team played better. And that he had great respect for their talent.

I just found that interesting, he was the only one to acknowlege the other team played well. Maybe small, but he seems to have respect in all interviews ive read on him.

I wonder why more kids dont look up to him, and try to ACT like him (sportsmanship wise).

Anjin3515

12-13-2007, 05:10 AM

Where does this "agg" attitude come from?
Is it from watching the pros (and not just in paintball)?
Is it because kids are spoiled and have $1000 markers handed to them and just expect the world to bow to them?
Is it because kids today are just arrogant?
Is it from playing hours of faceless, consequenceless online games, where you can do and say anything with no repercussion?
Is this the result from years of schools teaching that every kid HAS to succeed, there are no losers, everyone is a winner and special, no one fails?

I dont know.....when I was a kid....sure I could be a punk, but not on the caliber of some of these kids. Kids will always try to buck authority, and teens tend to think the universe revolves around them....but is it just me....or is it worse then ever........maybe hitting 35 I am just getting to old and lame??

BigEvil

12-13-2007, 05:13 AM

DARN! (Inside joke):evillaugh:

I hope so. Would be nice. What happen to age limits to play?

I just spit out coffee thanks to that. Gosh Darn it!!

TnDeathInc

12-13-2007, 06:13 AM

Raise the prices, do wht you gotta due, but riasing hte prices just makes it more rich little kids playing.

tymcneer

12-13-2007, 07:25 AM

I think that raising prices will just remove those of us that have no intention of paying more than X to play from the equation.

Medic's suggestions are very good! Infractions should cause penalties. These should be posted in plain sight, and enforced!

All of this boils down to personal responsibility. If the Agglets feel that they don't have to be responsible for their actions, they will continue to misbehave. As to sportsmanship... I have no idea how to cur that...

Ty

Ninjeff

12-13-2007, 07:43 AM

Raise the prices, do wht you gotta due, but riasing hte prices just makes it more rich little kids playing.

Thats a really good point. In my experience, its often the kids that work their butts off because they love this game and save save save money to get that Tippmann they've had their eyes on that make return RESPOSIBLE and well behaved players. Its not the agg kid who has everything handed to him by mom and dad thats will stop playing, as all they will do is bug mom and dad for more money.

grEnAlEins

12-13-2007, 08:12 AM

By "adult", I mean it in the grown-up sense, not "***".

Since most kiddies are broke and either dont have money to spend or spend their parents $$ anyway,..wouldn't it make sense for the industry to at least attempt to move away from catering to the 13 y/o crowd and back to adults? Can it be done? How? What are the demographics for the paintball playing crowd? :coffee:

Yes and no. IDK what things are like around you, but here most agglets are older than that. Ranges from pre to early teen up through 20's (kinda pathetic). One thing I think you overlooked is that teens and 20-somethings tend to have disposable incomes in many cases. This can be spent entirely on hobbies. Others need to pay for rent/mortgage, bills, college, etc. That and mommy and daddy have cash that they can use, as you stated. I do not know that this is a factor, but I think it would be.

bryceeden

12-13-2007, 08:45 AM

Truthfull I love it when good kids show up to play, and my little league tourneys are awsome. I strongly disslike the little punks that show up now and then but most kids around here are pretty good and well behaved. I rather enjoy spending time teaching good kids how to play. More adults is always good, but more good respectful kids are definatly needed as well.

BigEvil

12-13-2007, 08:51 AM

I, for one, am disappointed. i even went and got a stack of ones when i read the thread title. :nana::sticktongue:

Save 'em.. and bring 'em when you come up for Tunaball. I will make sure that they are put to good use... like to some college chick's tuition or something :banana:

12-13-2007, 07:43 PM

This would be so nice. Maybe we can split fields up by adult and kids. Like thanksgiving!

tymcneer

12-13-2007, 09:48 PM

This would be so nice. Maybe we can split fields up by adult and kids. Like thanksgiving!

Now, that's a damn fine idea... Keep the agglet jerk offs in their corner of the play area, and let the rest of us that were taught how to play nicely together, do just that!

Ty

sepplainer

12-13-2007, 09:51 PM

etjoyride

12-13-2007, 09:53 PM

This would be so nice. Maybe we can split fields up by adult and kids. Like thanksgiving!

so you'd make the younger players that are good suffer without anyone else enjoyable around?

p8ntball72

12-13-2007, 10:12 PM

In city leagues, YMCA, boys and girl clubs, any organized sporting really,
Adults and Children do not compete against each other.
it is not based on skill its based partly on attitude among other things.

I don't think it would be a bad thing to run paintball like any other organized sporting league.

although, the Paintball gene pool gets more diluted by the minute.

Disclaimer for above statement:
when I say Paintball gene pool, i mean the total player base and am not just referring to minors.
I have run into my fair share of adult "agglets" with questionable playing standards.

The best scenario for me playing, is to do it with people I know, in small groups, that have a reputation for fair play.
If that doesn't bode well for the industry... so be it.

mongoose

12-14-2007, 04:53 AM

As many of you, i started playing when i was very young and now that im older i cant forget all the crap the older kids put me through. But i had fun and learned.
i do agree there seems to be more smart *** kids around lately.

What they sould do at the fields is have it set up kinda like little league baseball.........seperate by age groups...then we wont have to deal with all the crap

JAM

12-14-2007, 06:57 AM

age groups at the fields would help a bit.

I don't mind playing with all ages of people, as long as they don't have attitudes. In all honesty, it's not an age thing, as I've played with just as many annoying older people as annoying kids...

warbeak2099

12-14-2007, 08:12 AM

Some of the younger players at my field are so annoying lol. Especially the ones who walk around asking people if they want to buy their VL Quantum or 20oz. It's cool when you help one of them though. One kid at my field had his 9v go on him and was looking for one. I had a spare and tossed it to him. Felt nice lol :happydance::banana::wthumpup:

12-15-2007, 10:30 AM

so you'd make the younger players that are good suffer without anyone else enjoyable around?

Yes!

Its just like drinking! :smarty::nana:

RogueFactor

12-15-2007, 01:57 PM

mostpeople

12-15-2007, 02:12 PM

Teenagers have always played the game. It just used to be that they couldnt buy skill back in the day, and knew they would last long on the field if they mouthed off and disrepected their peers.

Nowadays, you have instant 15 bps. Add to that the wiping/cheating factor, and it makes for a lousy game. Take that bought skill away, and the kids wont come anymore. Problem is, who does that leave?

I cant decide though whether the companies start catering to the younger crowd because there werent enough older guys to grow the sport?

not too many because the older guys have already been alienated..

It would be nice to have fewer punk a** kids playing - but its not going to happen. Its a free country afterall...

the ONLY way I could ever see it happening is if you opened up a mechanical only field.. or an 18+ only field. Then - who would your market be?

michbich

12-15-2007, 02:12 PM

[...]

I cant decide though whether the companies start catering to the younger crowd because there werent enough older guys to grow the sport?

I don't think that was there intention in the first place, but rather a by-product produced by the cheaper markers.

If a kid wants to play, he/she will play with what ever he/she can. But if you have electros as cheap as mecanicals, they will take the hishest performance marker they can by thinking they will be great because of it.