The Lvl 11 er... DSBolt

[Dark Side]

It all revolves around the bolt stem/ powertube...No need to buy a new bolt. woo.

Steps: the Theories are stacked accordingly.
1. Remove 9/64 at end of stem.
2. Add a 9/64 delrin sleeve to the inside of the power tube. This sleeve can be changed out by removing the powertub tip, much like the Lvl 10 o rings/spacers.

Theory:
1. Cutting the stem back 9/64 allows the larger diameter of the stem to take over at the halfway point in the breech. It was said earlier that it takes more pressure to force a smaller piston the same distance than a larger one. The larger piston takes effect at the halfway point(because it is pointless to have antichop after that) to fire the ball. I feel that if a small hole in the piston (the one for the antichop) can relieve enough pressure to not hurt a ball then it has damn near zero capablility to help the larger piston take over.
2. The sleeve effectively produces a longer area for the large part of the stem to ride along. This also takes over at the halfway point in the breech. Helps keep the loss of gas to a minimum. If no sleeve is installed and the stem is cut the bolt will always chuff.

As I said; Anti chop serves no purpose after the halfway point in the breech. This is right at 9/64 of an inch. I feel this buffer is waste and can be improved. Another reason for the change. If it takes X amount of pressure to fire a ball ( X = amount needed to overcome wimpy small piston) then effectively increasing the piston size (by both cutting the stem and adding a sleeve) means a smaller amount of pressure is needed to accomplish the same principle= shooting deeper into your tank while keeping the antichop ability will love so dear.

http://www.automags.org/pic/img/lvl10/lvl10_4.jpg

[Ninjeff]

well color me curious......

Dont keep us waiting, post up!

[snoopay700]

well color me curious......

Dont keep us waiting, post up!

I too am very interested in this, mainly how it will work.

[Dark Side]

Got to thinking about the design and I can cut costs, while emcompassing the same theory by machining an exsisting bolt and power tube. I'll get back to the design pic.

[Papa_Smurf]

I'm interested.

[Dark Side]

Steps and theories added.

Is it just a madmans quest for power and greatness or have I stumbled apon something awesome?

[Spider]

As I said; Anti chop serves no purpose after the halfway point in the breech. This is right at 9/64 of an inch.
It's still early for my sinuses...:coffee:

Would you clarify how you find 9/64" is the halfway point in the breech?

Without checking the bolt dimensions, my first reaction is that the level 10 doesn't give anti-chop capacitiy except in the first 1/4" of travel anyway, so I don't yet see the light (if it is on). :coffee:

[Mechanic79]

I'm intrigued.

Would this allow for the same tuning of current Level X spring and carrier o-ring?
Would this affect recharge rate?

[Spider]

I'm intrigued.

Would this allow for the same tuning of current Level X spring and carrier o-ring?
Would this affect recharge rate?

There would be an improvement! Level 10 performance with no tuning. :happydance:

[nmib]

Looks like S.Parts just patented this....

I kid!

Looks awesome.. Love to see the results.

[Dark Side]

Would you clarify how you find 9/64" is the halfway point in the breech?

Without checking the bolt dimensions, my first reaction is that the level 10 doesn't give anti-chop capacitiy except in the first 1/4" of travel anyway, so I don't yet see the light (if it is on). :coffee:

I took a long look at the stem design. Then installed a very tight oring in the carrier, installed the bolt/valve body without a spring to see bolt travel, and then measured where the carrier "stick" stopped. This is the point where the main piston takes over for firing. At about 9/64(I don't have a micrometer to be sure. it was just over 1/8)The carrier stick stops which is over halfway into the breech.

The antichop feature is active until the large diameter piston slides through the powertube tip.




Would this allow for the same tuning of current Level X spring and carrier o-ring?

The current tuning would still be needed by each user. All shims/springs would still be available for use. I am working on a progressive rate spring to further reduce gas waste(less pressure to overcome).

[mongoose]

:candle:There would be an improvement! Level 10 performance with no tuning. :happydance:

[mostpeople]

Dark Side you and I should talk..

I have some ideas you may not have thought of - I beleive it is possible to make the lvl 10 bolt tune-free, and faster recharging with a few simple modifications.

I dont know if I feel comfortable telling the world yet though.. i dont know what I want to do with this idea, but obviously the first idea is testing.

[Dark Side]

Dark Side you and I should talk..

I have some ideas you may not have thought of - I beleive it is possible to make the lvl 10 bolt tune-free, and faster recharging with a few simple modifications.

I dont know if I feel comfortable telling the world yet though.. i dont know what I want to do with this idea, but obviously the first idea is testing.

PM sent your way.

[senghing27]

This sounds like a great plan :clap:

[michbich]

When do you predict to have an actual prototype to show?

[IronHyde]

Get it Built guys, youve got out support.

Im not the only one who couldnt make heads or tails of the inital post right? :oneear:

[warbeak2099]

I really feel like the cream of the crop come here to post. Viva la Legion! Definitely interested in how this turns out.

[DevilMan]

gotta say though..... may wanna change the name from LVL 11.... you know...

Just in case BEEMER tries to **' you and say that LVL is an AGD thang...

Maybe PBL11.... so instead of a reading it.... Level 11.... It would be Pebble11

:D

But yeah get that shiznit built...

AND WILL PLEASE ONE OF YOU FREAKING GUYS WITH A MILL PM ME SO I CAN GET SOME STUFF MILLED!!!!! On the cheap though... can't roll out benjamins...

DM

[DevilMan]

HOLY HELL!!!! I"VE BEEN CENSORED!!!!!

You mean I can't say.... I LOVE **!!!!!

WTF!!!!!

bwhahahahhahahaaaa what about... EyeLuvSP.... does that one make it???

DM

[DevilMan]

YES!!!!!! It made it...

Okay just to clarify... I do't love em....

alright guys...

hey....

what's that stick for???

Helppppp meeeeee

DM

[snoopay700]

Ah, now i understand your madness...

You're using elves. But seriously this is an awesome idea, glad someone came up with it.

[warbeak2099]

Well since this is pblegion and not AO, I think he's using gremlins instead.

[Spider]

YES!!!!!! It made it...

Okay just to clarify... I do't love em....

alright guys...

hey....

what's that stick for???

Helppppp meeeeee

DM

Don't ban me bro! Don't ban meee! aaaahahhaahhh!

[Dark Side]

Alright, DSbolt it is then.

I have a few peoples that I plan on getting spare lvl 10 bolts from. I just need to secure a few powertube tips and the prototyping will begin.


I dig the gremlins.:wthumpup:

[snoopay700]

Alright, DSbolt it is then.

I have a few peoples that I plan on getting spare lvl 10 bolts from. I just need to secure a few powertube tips and the prototyping will begin.


I dig the gremlins.:wthumpup:

So are you going to be running the powertube more like a level 7 then? That's what it sounds like you mean to me because of the larger diameter.

[warbeak2099]

I dig the gremlins.:wthumpup:

Gremlins > Elves and Gnomes :cheers:

[Spider]

Im not the only one who couldnt make heads or tails of the inital post right? :oneear:
:thinking: :oneear:
I'm with ya.

The barrel breech is at least .68 in all directions, so I'm thinking halfway to the breech must be a different one than the barrel, or you're saying 9/64" (0.141 inches) past halfway.

Just trying to understand the basis.

[Dark Side]

:thinking: :oneear:
I'm with ya.

The barrel breech is at least .68 in all directions, so I'm thinking halfway to the breech must be a different one than the barrel, or you're saying 9/64" (0.141 inches) past halfway.

Just trying to understand the basis.

I meant as the bolt travels into the breech,moving away from the valve. Antichop is pointless then.

[Dark Side]

So are you going to be running the powertube more like a level 7 then? That's what it sounds like you mean to me because of the larger diameter.

Yes, after the antichop feature is expired that is.

[mostpeople]

pm sent to you darkside

[senghing27]

DS, if you can get it to work. I would totally get one from you to use on my RT Pro. It could use a lvlx, or 11, or anything... The thing is a freaking blender

[PneuMagger]

what is the diameter of the bolt tube on teh level ten bolt? The little diameter that the oring goes around.

[Dark Side]

pm sent to you darkside

Replied.




what is the diameter of the bolt tube on teh level ten bolt? The little diameter that the oring goes around.

I would have to measure it.

[Mechanic79]

what is the diameter of the bolt tube on teh level ten bolt? The little diameter that the oring goes around.

I measured 3 of my level X bolts all = 0.172"

[ThePixelGuru]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but I don't see the point. The intent (as I understand it) is to add diameter to the bolt stem so once the anti-chop factor is no longer an issue during the firing cycle the bolt takes less force to push forward. But the pressure is already in the chamber, so it'll push the bolt regardless (since it needs to overcome that initial resistance) and therefore I don't see how it could shoot deeper into the tank. Seems like it would lead to a faster bolt cycle, but that's the only advantage I'm getting from this. Set me straight if I missed something, but all I'm hearing from you folks is that 34+ BPS just isn't enough. :uzi:

[Dark Side]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but I don't see the point. The intent (as I understand it) is to add diameter to the bolt stem so once the anti-chop factor is no longer an issue during the firing cycle the bolt takes less force to push forward. But the pressure is already in the chamber, so it'll push the bolt regardless (since it needs to overcome that initial resistance) and therefore I don't see how it could shoot deeper into the tank. Seems like it would lead to a faster bolt cycle, but that's the only advantage I'm getting from this. Set me straight if I missed something, but all I'm hearing from you folks is that 34+ BPS just isn't enough. :uzi:

Hell, 15 BPS is fine by me.

I feel that if the stem is cut and the power tube moved deeper into the bolt (for lack of a better description), that less gas would be needed to move a ball at 300 FPS. If this is true, then it automatically increases efficiency. Calling it a quicker recharge would not be wholly correct. It would just happen sooner in the firing sequence, not faster.

[nmib]

whats the good word? :coffee:

[RogueFactor]

bump

[smoke63b]

Interested in how this turns out. I'll keep watching :D Good luck with it.

[Dark Side]

I had to put this project on the back burner due to some family issues. Since I have picked up another that I hope will use this bolt. But for now, it's dead in the water.

[SilentStalkersPaintball]

Let's bump this to the top !! I am interested in this project:evillaugh:

[Dark Side]

It's still on hold. Waiting for my valve to release....:D