Id hate to be a Distributor right about now...

[RogueFactor]

...JT Sports LLC Traditional Sales Division announced today that all Traditional sales will go through its Carlsbad California sales office directly to paintball dealers and fields.

Tippmann Sports announced today that it is terminating distribution of all Tippmann products through American Paintball Supply and Archon Paintball Supply.

Interesting. The industry is doing a 180*. For years manufacturers pushed dealers and fields to distributors. Now everyone is 'going-direct'.

It appears they are all scrambling.

[BigEvil]

Where are you getting all of this from?

[RogueFactor]

From their press-releases.

[Ninjeff]

From his spy satilites

[MedicDVG]

Does that mean the industry is trying to foster brick and mortar sales? I always thought that the industry, and retail in general, was heading to a more internet based e-commerce. I am still trying to understand who benefits the most from this 180*

[BlueDragonX]

Does that mean the industry is trying to foster brick and mortar sales? I always thought that the industry, and retail in general, was heading to a more internet based e-commerce. I am still trying to understand who benefits the most from this 180*

I was thinking on this during my 6 hour return drive (ugh, never again, I move this weekend!) today. I'm probably overlooking some things, but I think pushing sales to brick-and-mortar stores is mostly an issue of reputation. You can keep closer tabs on the people selling your product this way. Controlling who the end customer sees selling your gear is a good way to control your images/reputation. Paintball technology isn't really improving at the moment. Most companies' markers perform comparably. In a market where one product is mostly the same as the other, image/reputation is what you're really selling.

[RogueFactor]

Does that mean the industry is trying to foster brick and mortar sales? I always thought that the industry, and retail in general, was heading to a more internet based e-commerce. I am still trying to understand who benefits the most from this 180*

IMO, the manufacturers think that the internet is the reason for the decline in sales.

At the end of the day, if the game isnt fun it wont matter who they foster.

[MedicDVG]

IMO, the manufacturers think that the internet is the reason for the decline in sales.

At the end of the day, if the game isnt fun it wont matter who they foster.

Interesting -- I would not be in paintball at all if it weren't for the internet sales sites. There are NO brick and mortar stores within 200 miles of me.

unless of course you count wally world...

[Ninjeff]

Interesting -- I would not be in paintball at all if it weren't for the internet sales sites. There are NO brick and mortar stores within 200 miles of me.

unless of course you count wally world...

Thats a good point, (im in the same boat) but maybe now without such a fight from low cost e-commerce the brick and mortar stores will have a fighting chance to stay open.

[txaggie08]

this is idiotic for small shops.

Do y'all realise howmuch of a buy-in alot of places expect you to make to get an account? dye is something in the range of 2grand+

We've been able to carry the variety we can because tanks in Katy is an archon supplier, and we buy through him...

[spwz99]

The field I work for sometimes is the same way.He has to order everything through another field an hour and a half away then drive down and pick it up. Talk about cutting into your profits. Even if he does sell a new marker, he barely makes anything by the time he pays for the gas to go get it.

[manike]

Does that mean the industry is trying to foster brick and mortar sales?

No. It means everyone is trying to squeeze as many $$$ out of the sport as they can.

Most brick and mortar stores would prefer to be able to pay shipping just once, and to be able to buy small orders where everything is lumped together.

For instance, a skid of paint, 2 Tippmanns, 3 pairs of JT goggles, 2 Dye Jerseys etc.

Now instead of being able to get that all from one place, with one order, and one set of shipping costs they now need to have accounts with 4 different companies, all with shipping, and all with minimum buy requirements (which can be thousands of dollars).

Well, at least that's what they were telling me at the last event when I discussed it with a bunch of them.

To help the grass roots and brick and mortar stores we need to go back to the basics, supporting the fields and making new players feel welcome rather than targets. Well that's my opinion at least.

[punkncat]

No. It means everyone is trying to squeeze as many $$$ out of the sport as they can.

Most brick and mortar stores would prefer to be able to pay shipping just once, and to be able to buy small orders where everything is lumped together.

For instance, a skid of paint, 2 Tippmanns, 3 pairs of JT goggles, 2 Dye Jerseys etc.

Now instead of being able to get that all from one place, with one order, and one set of shipping costs they now need to have accounts with 4 different companies, all with shipping, and all with minimum buy requirements (which can be thousands of dollars).

Well, at least that's what they were telling me at the last event when I discussed it with a bunch of them.

To help the grass roots and brick and mortar stores we need to go back to the basics, supporting the fields and making new players feel welcome rather than targets. Well that's my opinion at least.

QFT.....I completly agree with the last part. The more new players are treated as targets the less that will come on board and stay. The sport still continues to kill itself.

[CHRONOBREAK]

this is a pain for a store, or evena field

so now i have to order 100 of something or its not cost effective.

I like being able to order 1-3 things from different manufacturers for a customer, now i gotta call 3 different places and get 3 different shippoing charges? OUCH...guess that is not gonna happen anymore.

heck just 2-3 years ago you could call kee(nps) and get everything and then some from them...now its basicly empire/invert/extreme rage and parts....and not a wide variety at that.

heck i cant even get some paint grenades from kee anymore:wall:

--our field has a large number of new players and we generaly keep them compared to what i see and hear elsewhere. its all aobut the environment you keep and maintain, and the type of play you allow. (semi only)

we got good refs and dont let people get lit up and keep tensions at a minimum.

we also dont do much or any of the tourney stuff, we tried catering to them and all it led to is a bunch of people that want discounts,sponsorships,airball fields which are a pita to maintain and $ as well as them overshooting and gunning down our regular customers and new players.

no more of that.

[michbich]

Interesting -- I would not be in paintball at all if it weren't for the internet sales sites. There are NO brick and mortar stores within 200 miles of me.

unless of course you count wally world...

Me neither, the only paintball related items i have bought localy are the paintballs themselves at Candian Tire (it compares to wally world but more car and camping oriented)

[manike]

I wish we could go back to just semi (and I mean true semi, not the BS semi people use/cheat with nowadays). I hate (and always have) the fact that we opened Pandora's box and everyone rushed in to the modes on guns. :(

I don't think they are really doing any good for our sport/industry other than a "big **** contest" and paint sales.

I blame Jim Drew. lmao :loser:

[manike]

Bah to the no edit thing... How many posts do I need... ;)

[BigEvil]

Bah to the no edit thing... How many posts do I need... ;)

10 :guinness:

[manike]

So does that mean once I get ten posts I can go back and edit out the ones where I screwed up and delete my comments about editing? :clap:

What if it creates a grandfather effect and I then have less than 10 posts... will I be lost in a black hole of endless refreshes and the blue screen of death? :wthumpup:

[RogueFactor]

I wish we could go back to just semi (and I mean true semi, not the BS semi people use/cheat with nowadays). I hate (and always have) the fact that we opened Pandora's box and everyone rushed in to the modes on guns. :(

I don't think they are really doing any good for our sport/industry other than a "big **** contest" and paint sales.

I blame Jim Drew. lmao :loser:

Its good to hear someone of your stature in the industry say this. Ive spoken with some others who run regionally recognized tournaments who have said the exact same thing.:wthumpup:

[Spider]

this is idiotic for small shops.

Do y'all realise howmuch of a buy-in alot of places expect you to make to get an account? dye is something in the range of 2grand+

We've been able to carry the variety we can because tanks in Katy is an archon supplier, and we buy through him...

Not that it isn't a pain, but $2k is 2 or 3 markers in stock right?

[bryceeden]

Its a bad idea as now smaller shops will not be able to stock alot of popular products without tons of accounts which cost alot of $$$$$. It doesn't affect me now, but afew years ago it would have.


Although Tippmann will still be available thru Procaps.

[JRingold]

I guess I finally have a reason to ditch my JT ProFlex goggles... And well, I've never owned anything Tippmann, so that doesn't bother me.

Something I've been practicing for the past two years is to buy local when possible. I'd rather pay a little more and have someone who is willing to give me a "guarantee" than to get it on the cheap and have to buy two of something. Returning something from Internet sales is a PITA. Supporting the local guy seems to have other returns that don't necessarily show in prices alone. Really, an extra $30 on paint in a day isn't going to break the bank. Sure, it could be another 1/2 a case, but really do you need to shoot 5000 rounds in a day when 4000 will do just fine?

[Outlaw5]

I agree with JRingold. I alway try to buy at the local store instead of going on the internet for an item but my question is.....won't local shops have to increase prices to deflect the multiple accounts and shipping costs from everywhere to get the products in their stores in the first place?? I see that as a catch 22 for everyone. "Outlaw5"

I do drugs so I can work longer so I can make more money so I can buy more drugs so I can work longer so I can make more money so I can buy more drugs so I can............... The cycle needs to be broken.

[Ninjeff]

this is a pain for a store, or evena field

so now i have to order 100 of something or its not cost effective.

I like being able to order 1-3 things from different manufacturers for a customer, now i gotta call 3 different places and get 3 different shippoing charges? OUCH...guess that is not gonna happen anymore......



Hmm. I hadnt thought of that. Good point

[senghing27]

This is pretty sad. I love my local store, and I support it. But if this leads to my local store jacking up the prices to meet ends meet, that will in turn have me buy online just to save a buck or two.

But then again, my local store is well run and when i have problems, I have a real live person to talk to...


This whole situation makes me very very sad inside.

[Meph]

Another thing to keep in mind though. We may have "opened Pandora's Box" however the continuous upgrading and arms race is what, IMHO, has kept a lot of people involved with paintball. As far as those who joined a few years ago and stayed in. The "oh that's new/cool/faster/smaller/shinier, I want that" effect.

However since the last couple of years have seen in all honesty no real furtherment (yes I just made up that word, **** off yanks!) in technological breakthroughs or anything. We've pretty much hit a wall and stalled. As such some people have lost interest.

And not with this stalemate those who were in paintball because of these advancements, now seeing none, have become bored and moved on.


Of course this is not the only problem, but just one of the situations.

[senghing27]

I completely agree with you there Meph.

Also, playing paintball, just isn't fun anymore.

Before, you still had to move and plan and what not.

Now, in an average airball game, all it is break out, camp and lane, and finish with one bunkering...

OMFG... Thats so much fun *sarcasm detector here*

[bryceeden]

my question is.....won't local shops have to increase prices to deflect the multiple accounts and shipping costs from everywhere to get the products in their stores in the first place??

Simple answer YES. Its alittle worse than just shipping as several distributers require you to order X amount of stuff every so ofter to remain a dealer with them(This is why I am no longer an AGD dealer) or if you don't order enough volume you get charged more for it and thus make less. Its kind of a bad deal for stores all the way around.

The thing to remember is that Tippmann for instance sells to Wholesalers at $3105.50 per marker but to distributers they sell for $3050.28, the distributers then sell them for $3110.00. So by cutting out the distributers Tippmann will make more money.
And yes my prices are just made up and rediculasly high but I can't give wholesale prices on here so you get the idea.

Tippmanns sales are down alot so this maybe an attempt to bring profits up to keep the company where it is?

[Spider]

(yes I just made up that word, **** off yanks!)
Are you kidding? You can be the President and make up words. As long as you know what they mean.

We've pretty much hit a wall and stalled. As such some people have lost interest.

Paintball technology has stalled before. That's OK. That just gives us time to sort out who we will pay and how we will play. Some bored person will come up with something interesting eventually.

[manike]

Tippmanns sales are down alot so this maybe an attempt to bring profits up to keep the company where it is?

I think you are absolutely right.

All these companies see this as a way for them to make more $$$.

I'm not sure they see what it will mean for the industry in the long run though.

Unfortunately for some of the big companies, the books here and NOW, and more important for their business intentions than the future...

Not healthy, but you see this kind of cycle happen in a lot of industries.

I think a lot of interesting things are going to happen in this industry over the next 5 years. It may get worse before it gets better. :twocents:

[bryceeden]

I truely wish I could just put in an order with Spyder, Archon, and KEE every week and get everything I need instead of having to get stuff from 10 different places. It would make my life much easier. Fortunatly Spyder and Archon(which are the two I get the most stuff from) treat me very well and give me free or discounted shipping, if not I'd be screwed. I can't imagine how smaller shops get by for as long as they do, if things had been like they are now when I started I never would have made it.

[warbeak2099]

Wouldn't it be easier to order from a distributor that carries all the brands you need than to order from each manufacturer though?

[mostpeople]

From his spy satilites

Rogue and MLB are watching you!

[bryceeden]

Wouldn't it be easier to order from a distributor that carries all the brands you need than to order from each manufacturer though?

Yes, thats my point.

[Meph]

Wouldn't it be easier

Easier =/= profitiest

[RogueFactor]

I think you are absolutely right.

All these companies see this as a way for them to make more $$$.

I'm not sure they see what it will mean for the industry in the long run though.

Unfortunately for some of the big companies, the books here and NOW, and more important for their business intentions than the future...

Not healthy, but you see this kind of cycle happen in a lot of industries.

I think a lot of interesting things are going to happen in this industry over the next 5 years. It may get worse before it gets better. :twocents:

I agree totally manike. Its the way for the companies to cut out a middle man to make more margin.

I had almost this exact conversation with some of the employees of ** on PBN in the Dealers forum. They were trying to make it appear as though they were giving all the margins to the dealers. There to 'help them out'. While Im sure they are giving them some of the margins, they are keeping a majority for themselves.