My "HOW I PNEUMAG" OR "HOW TO PNEUMAG" Thread

[Cyberave68]

Reserved.....

for when i get my internet fixed...:wall:

Soon i hope... :nunchaku:

Ok so i will try to load what i can and will update this as i can or when new things are learned/tried.
Please dont post, as this is mainly for info to be read.
If you have something you want to add please pm me and i will slip it in there for you....

Later,
Cyberave68

GLOSSARY


Section 1: How to make/assemle the piston (MPA-3) post#2
Section 2: Mounting the piston (MPA-3) Post #3
Section 3: Mounting the Fabco MSV-2 Post #4
Section 4: Drilling and setting up your trigg rod,(from trigg to MSV-2 lever) Post #5

Other info on Pneumags:

"How to Maximize Your Classic Valve" Post #20

[Cyberave68]

OK so if you get one of my Pneumag kits you can skip this section as i do all this for you aready...
(Shameless plug over over....)

section 1 How to make/assemle the piston (MPA-3)

Tools needed for this section:

Heres what i used,
Snap ring pliers, (you can use an o-ring pic??)(sorta)
Table top belt sander, (you can use a file for most of it)
#6-32X2" screw,
Calipers, (if you have em)
Dow 33,
Q-tips
#6-32 rivnut (or a ram from Luke)
#6-32X1/2" screw (or a ram from Luke)
rat tail file with 1/4" dia.
new MPA-3

STEP 1

What needs to be done to make/assemble the piston/ram. (MPA-3)

Take some snap ring pliers and remove the snap ring from
the top of the MPA-3. (silver ring on top with little holes in it)

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/PISTONWITHWASHERANDSNAPRING.jpg

The snap ring needs to be compressed to be removed. With the snap ring removed, take out the washer(brass), spring and derlin plunger with quad o-ring and set them aside. ( i use a zip loc to store small parts)

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/DISSAMBLEDPISTONSMPA-3.jpg

Notice in the picture, the pieces between the white derlin plunger and the spring is a riv-nut (#6-32 already sanded down to fit) and #6-32 screw used to make the other end of the piston rod in the next step. What you can see in this picture is that i already trimed the excess from the side and length of the MPA-3. When you do this, you want to get as close to the snap ring as possible but, BE SURE NOT TO TRIM TOO MUCH. If you do, you will take away the groove that holds the snap ring in and then your screwed. The best way to do this is to put the washer and snap ring back in the piston, and then sand/file down close to the snap ring. This will give you a better view of where you should stop. This way you will know the snap ring holds everything in and the piston is as short as possible.

Now, on one side of the MPA-3, sand/file it down a little so that it will fit into the frame. About .5400" if you have some calipers. Doing it this way is way better than hacking up your frame to make the piston fit and much easier. You only have to take off just a little from one side. You can see the MPA-3 side ground down just a little in this picture. Test it for a good fit. Now set these parts aside for the next step of the piston/ram assembly.


STEP 1A

Now it’s onto making the ram, (If you dont get one from Luke)

Heres what i did, cut the head/disc part off the rivnut and sand it on the outside edges till you get it close enuff to press in the plunger. (about .2400") and put a small bevel on the bottom to help guide it in place. I Press the sanded rivnut into place rather than glueing it in. If there is any issues you can always get it apart and try to fix whatever may be wrong. Set the plunger on a solid surface, place the rivnut on top with the bevel side down. Tap the rivnut lightly with a hammer till it is seated in there flat.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/RAMAND.jpg

Ok now i take the brass washer and open the hole up some to fit the ram assembly you just made. I use a 1/4" rat tail file for this. I put the file in my drill and put it in reverse. I grab the washer with a pair of pliers and set it over the file. With the drill in reverse set it spinning and run the washer back till it slides over the file completely.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/FILEINGBRASSWASHER.jpg

Once the ram and plunger are pressed together, The washer hole opened up, assemble the MPA-3 back together making sure all the parts are assembled in the correct order. If you forget, refer to the pictures in step 1. (or look below)

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/DISSAMBLEDPISTONSMPA-3.jpg
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/DRAWINGOFMPA-3.jpg

Be sure to clean out the inside of the MPA-3 so it
is free of all metal shavings from the sanding/fileing process before you reassemble it.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/CLEANINGINSIDEOFPISTONMPA-3.jpg

You should also put a little bit of gun oil or grease (Grease would be better) on the plunger and inside MPA-3 for the o-rings sake….

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/LUBETHEPISTONMPA-3.jpg

DO NOT loctite the screw into the riv-nut yet, take the screw and
set it off to the side for now.

Now once you have re-assembled it you should be done…(for now)
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[Cyberave68]

Section 2: Mounting the piston

Tools needed for this section:

Heres what i used,
Drill
7/64" drill bit
#6-32 tap
Center punch (can use a nail and hammer for this)
1/16" allen key
2 #6-32X3/16" set screws


Mounting the piston,

For the frame I used a Chimera. It's open and there alot of room that helps make this mod MUCH easier in terms of assembling. If you are wondering where to get a Chimera frame check the B/S/T setions on PBL or AO for a used one or go to www.themagsmith.com for a new one and Rouge will hook you up….

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/STORINGPARTS.jpg

Note where the MPA-3 is in the frame, this is where you want to
permanently mount it in the frame. Also note how i have it tilted down just a bit. This is to keep the ram as far down on the sear arm as possible. The lower it hits the better. It gives you more leverage, which allowes you to use less force to fire the gun.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/RAMTOSEARARM.jpg

I set the piston in the frame and put the rail with sear on to get an idea of where i want the piston to be. Remove the rail to continue. Alway set the frame on something soft or you will scratch it up. I then take my center puch and mark it for the first set screw hole. (I do the bottom hole first)
(The pic comes out better with out the tool in the way)

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/CENTERPUNCHFORDRILLPOINTSONPISTON.jpg

You can use a nail and hammer. Take the nail and set it where you want to drill. Then tap it with a hammer to give you a small indent in the frame. This helps you start the bit into the frame and also helps keep it from walking on you. (drilling and sliding to the side) You can also use masking tape and a pen to draw marks on there to show you where you want to punch/drill. (I do the bottom hole first)
(The pic comes out better with out the tool in the way)

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/SETUPTODRILLFORPISTONSETSCREWS.jpg

I put 2 set screws in on one side. This keeps the piston from turning/rotating on you. I set them up one over the other. When you start drilling i recomend to have your piston in place. Why? you ask, well to drill a small indention into the piston for the set screw to settle in. Dont drill to much just a little bit!!!! See pic for reference.... This will keep it from ever sliding out of position. Also notice how i drilled into the flat area of the piston(MPA-3) It will help to do it this way. When drilling it shouldnt sldie on you. If you try to drill into the round part it will slide around and make it hard to set in the right spot.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/DRILLEDPISTON.jpg

Also be sure to point the 90* fitting up to get the air line on with nothing being in the way. Drill the first 7/64" hole be sure to drill into the piston a little bit.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/DRILLINGTOSETPISTONMPA-3.jpg

Get one hole done first and remove the piston and take the #6-32 tap and tap the first hole.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/TAPPINGFRAMEFORPISTONMOUNTSCREWS.jpg

Replace the piston and put the #6-32X3/16" set screw in it. Now put the rail back on to check to see how the piston hits on the sear. This is what i think it should look like...

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/RAMTOSEARARM.jpg

You can never stop to check to many times. If all looks well remove the rail and drill the second hole. If not while you only have one set screw in you should be able to adjust/turn it a bit for better position. Remember that if you tilt the MPA-3 a little the second hole will be off center just a bit. Be sure to adjust for that. Remember lower is better... Again remove the piston after you drill and then tap the frame for the second set screw. This should be about it for mounting the piston...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Cyberave68]

OK now remeber this is how i do a Chimera frame. I do have all these parts available to you just ask...


Section 3: Mounting the Fabco MSV-2

Tools need for this section:

Heres what i used,
Drill
9/64" drill bit
7/64" drill bit
#6-32 tap
2 #6-32X1 1/4" button head or 2 #6-32X1" flat head screws
phillips screw driver
5/16" wrench
2 #6-32X3/16" set screws(if you use a bracket like mine)


Mounting the Fabco MSV-2,

Any AGD frame is good because you can use the micro switch mount used for the intelli feed to mount the MSV-2. The nut and screw used to mount the MSV-2 is a 6-32 screw and nut. Place the MSV-2 the desired location and line it up how it is permanently going to stay. You may need to drill a new hole in the intelli feed mount to hold your MSV-2. You will also have to cut the lever down to fit under the piston. Once you are set with the position of the MSV-2, set up a mock of where you want your new hole to go and use the bit to mark your hole location. Remove the MSV-2 and drill the mark to make your hole. Once its drilled You need to really wrench down on 6-32 nut so the MSV-2 wont move.

More on this to come as i dont have any pics to show you just yet...



I made my own mount bracket for the MSV-2. I used a piece of 1"X1"X1/8" aluminum angle. I sanded one side down to fit inside of the milled edges of the frame.(about a half inch) I moved it into place to give me an idea of where it should go with the MSV-2 on top of it.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/SETTINGTHEMSV-21.jpg

I took my bracket and drilled two 7/64" holes in it at about this angle. The angle allowes the set screws to push the bracket tight against the other side of the frame.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/DRILLINGTHEMOUNTBRACKET.jpg

So i tap the 7/64" holes with a #6-32 tap

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/TAPPINGTHEMOUNTBRACKET.jpg

nd put it back in the frame with the MSV-2 on it again. I then take my 7/64" drill bit and make some small indentions in the frame through my taped holes one at a time. I keep one screw in place to keep the bracket from moving when drill the indentions in the frame. These also help keep the bracket from ever sliding around.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/MARKINGTHEFRAMEFORTHEMOUNTBRACKETSE.jpg

I check to see if this is where i want the set up to go. I use a 9/64" drill and one hole at a time to mount the MSV-2. Once the first hole is done i contersink the back of the bracket and place the screw and nut in and tighen it up. Check it again to see if this is the right positon before going on. It will look something like this....

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/MSV-2MOUNTED1.jpg

Now i move on to the second hole. Once i have the MSV-2 mounted i get ready to set the trigg rod in the next step.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Cyberave68]

Section 4: Drilling and setting up your trigg rod,(from trigg to MSV-2 lever)

Tools need for this section:

Heres what i used,
Drill
1/8" long drill bit About 6"(found it at lowes made by IRWIN)
1/8" drill bit

Drilling and setting up your trigg rod,(from trigg to MSV-2 lever)

You will have to mark the frame for drilling the trigg rod guide hole. Make a small drill mark on the trigg guard about here.

(Pic wont load will fix somehow?)

This is where to drill a hole straight back to where the top of the MSV-2 lever is located. Now this is where it gets a bit tricky. You need to do a mock up of what your looking to do. I set all the parts in place to see where i should be drilling.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/DRILLTRIGGRODHOLESETUP.jpg

At this point i have removed the trigg. To remove the trigger. Get a punch and hammer and set the punch on the trigg pin and tap on it till it comes out. The trigger hinge pin will only come out one way so dont go crazy and smack it out with one hit. Tap on it till it moves some and check to see if it has some flattened spots on it. If so you are going the right way. If not go the other way as you dont want to force it through your trigg. especialy if you have a bearing in there. Alway set the frame on something soft or you will scratch it up.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/REMOVINGTRIGG.jpg

Once the trigg is out heres how i get ready to drill through the trigg guard at the correct spot and angle... You guessed it, amother mock up...lol

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/DRILLTRIGGRODHOLESETUP.jpg

Ok now to the next little part,

The frame has this little ledge inside behing the trigg that sticks up a bit, and it's where i start for setting up the trigg rod guide hole. So to get started be sure the piston(MPA-3) and the MSV-2 are removed from the frame. The ledge is too small for the bit to start drilling into once you have drilled through the trigg guard. I start a few small holes in from the top of the frame just in front of the ledge. (the view is with the drill bit in place for reference)

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/TRIGGRODHOLEGUIDESWITHBIT.jpg

These holes DO NOT GO ALL THAY WAY THROUGH... I only go deep enuff for the 1/8" drill bit to have a solid area to drill into.

(In the pic the red colored parts will be what your looking for)

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/TRIGGRODHOLEDRAWING.jpg

This will also help guide the long drill bit into the ledge with out it running all over the place. As you can see from the set up that the long bit goes in at a bit of an angle from the top of the trigger guard to where it enters again below the saftey.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/TRIGGRODHOLEDRILLED2.jpg
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/TRIGGRODHOLEDRILLED1.jpg
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/TRIGGRODHOLEDRILLED.jpg

Take you time on this part. You dont want to rush through this and put the hole in at the wrong angle or crocked. Once the hole is drilled you can re-assemble the parts to see how they line up together.


http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/pneumags/SETTINGTHEMSV-21.jpg

[Cyberave68]

i still need more...

[Cyberave68]

and more.....

[Cyberave68]

i'll use this one too....

[Cyberave68]

might work on this one too...

[Cyberave68]

i hope to use this one....

[Cyberave68]

i was going to let you use this one but i dont want to....:smarty:

[Cyberave68]

Talk about a post whore....lol

[Cyberave68]

Hell it's almost as if i like to talk to myself,

[Cyberave68]

Or maybe i just like to keep seeing my name over and over and over...

[Cyberave68]

if i keep going like this you wont have any space to say anything...:smarty:

[Cyberave68]

I'll keep going for now....

[Cyberave68]

As you can see i talk ALOT.....

[Cyberave68]

Oh and i have alot of PICS....

[Cyberave68]

and i think there is a limit of how many pics i can post at one time????

[Cyberave68]

OK so i found this and did a copy and paste. Enjoy.... :woohoo:


How to Maximize Your Classic Valve

By “The Electrician”

08-19-2006, 07:35 PM

Automag.org “The Workshop” forum





I'll be your huckleberry shingo.

I've got my old classic valve running 21 bps, with heavy modification of course.

seems like I've typed all this stuff in before, It's probably been a while.

seems like sometimes people don't take me seriously because I'm not able to be on the forum as much as I used to.



getting the most out of you classic valved pneumag:

alright first off,
use a sear stop. you want to control the sear accurately. without the sear stop, the back of the sear will go up and smack into the bottom of the on/off assembly. that pushes the on/off pin way farther in than ever needed. remember, things are different now. your not able rely on the trigger and sear pin length to only push the on/off pin as far as need be. now, the MPA pushes the sear all the way to the back of the frame. hell it will push it a 1/4"
that's way too far!! no amount of shims can be put in the on/off to make up for that.

NOW, the minimum needed sear movement is dictated by the BOLT. It MUST be able to travel all the way forward UN-HINDERED!! do not make the MPA piston so close it stops the sear from moving all the way forward. it should just barely touch it. now take the valve out of the gun and look down inside at the sear. look at the part that catches the bolt lip. it has to be able to travel down just below flush with the inside of the body tube. SET you sear backstop right there.

that is the minimum required sear movement.

now use an RT on/off. DO NOT use a ULT it does not have enough flow for the classic valve design.

drill out the top of the RT on/off to approx. .163" this will eliminate some reactivity that you are not going to use or want, and it will improve the air flow significantly. Do NOT go all the way through, just down to the four side holes. now drill out the 4 side holes in the RT on/off top to .125"

use a Quad o-ring just like the e-mags do. also change out the center o-ring to a buna-n o-ring. it will make the pin move easier.

either use ULT shims or make your own using some 11/32" OD brass tubing or something. you are going to shim it in the same place the ULT is shimmed.

that will get you to 16bps with a lvl10 bolt.

going even farther you can port out the valve body between the reg and the on/off chamber. drill it out one step at a time up to .116"

this will take you up to 18 BPS with a lvl10.

now if you need more than that with a pneumag, switch to decaff and calm down











Shingo Disclaimer: YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE IF YOU DO THIS MOD. If you damage your Mag, your tools or injure yourself/others, you and only you will be responsible for it. Think before you act. Carefully plan out the process of this mod before you begin.

[BigEvil]

***Please DO NOT post in this thread. A separate thread for questions will be started when this one is completed. ***

[RogueFactor]

bump

[DevilMan]

Feel Like NecroPosting Today Eh Rouge???

DM

[RogueFactor]

Feel Like NecroPosting Today Eh Rouge???

DM

Nope. Some dont know these posts are here, as youve recently found out.:wthumpup:

[Max Powers]

Im a little lost. What is the point of all of that?

[RogueFactor]

Im a little lost. What is the point of all of that?

The point of what?

[Max Powers]

Everything that is in that frame. What does it do?

[Practice Target]

Im a little lost. What is the point of all of that?

Max: If I understand your question, the point is that these pneumatics can reduce the trigger pull of the mag to that of an electro. It will also make the mag much easier to walk the trigger. All of this without the use of electronics and batteries.

I hope this answers your question.

:cheers:

[Max Powers]

Max: If I understand your question, the point is that these pneumatics can reduce the trigger pull of the mag to that of an electro. It will also make the mag much easier to walk the trigger. All of this without the use of electronics and batteries.

I hope this answers your question.

:cheers:

Thank you, thats what I was looking for. Im glad someone could answer it, I hate to post the same thing all over other forums.

If I understand you, this will work as good as an electronic gun such as the emag? Is it better than the Agd ult? I have that in an xvalve on my minimag and it is much better than the old stainless steel a.i.r. valve.

Next, would this be cheaper to have done than to purchase a new marker? I am on a budget, and I do not play as often as I used to.

Thank you again for your aid. Im sorry for my lack of knowlege, I am trying to get up to speed after being away from the scene for a while.

[Cyberave-68]

Thank you, thats what I was looking for. Im glad someone could answer it, I hate to post the same thing all over other forums.

If I understand you, this will work as good as an electronic gun such as the emag? Is it better than the Agd ult? I have that in an xvalve on my minimag and it is much better than the old stainless steel a.i.r. valve.

Next, would this be cheaper to have done than to purchase a new marker? I am on a budget, and I do not play as often as I used to.

Thank you again for your aid. Im sorry for my lack of knowlege, I am trying to get up to speed after being away from the scene for a while.

It will take a little getting used to as the trig feel is different. And x-valve is perfect with ULT for this mod. You can get a complete kit cheap here...

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=226161

Also if you want it done contact the me and i can help with that. And any other questions you may have...

Later,
Cyberave68