Cocker Valve problem

[t0nnn]

Here's a link to the post I put up on customcockers.com with some responses:

http://www.customcockers.com/forum/showthread.php?p=18306&posted=1#post18306

Copy of the post:

ok here's the story..

I bought a superbolt cocker, apparently with a leaky ram used from someone to make it a pump. The ram was fine, but it had a bad leak internally so I figured it was the valve..took it apart and yes, the valve o-ring was shot. I replaced it, but when I put the valve back in it didn't sit right and I couldn't get it to go in any farther so I said F it maybe it will be fine.

Here's how it's sitting:
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t272/t0nnn/valve2.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t272/t0nnn/valve.jpg

Now this IS a problem, because I can't adjust the hammer without pushing it forward by sticking an allen key down the tube...but I did it just to see if the gun would not leak. put the IVG back in and aired up and it shot, I was happy...no leaks ..ok great.

Aired it up today to shoot some paint and it's shooting maybe 150fps (chrono wasn't even reading it) I turned the velocity up slowly more and more and still the same (to the point where I should have been shooting way above 300) So I tried adjusting my reg a little and still the same thing.

THEN I get the constant leak again. Now it's weird b/c i'll get the leak when I air up, after I pump and take a shot there's no leak. If I shoot a ball, right after I get the leak, but with no ball I don't get a leak...crazy BAN

I take the IVG out, take the hammer out, and now the valve won't come out. It's stuck in there, I wanted to see if it tore up another o-ring..

So first, any idea why the valve won't come out or why it won't even sit in the right place? I'm guessing that's why it's tearing up o-rings and leaking

Second, Any tips on how I can get the valve out...i'm stuck

[bryceeden]

At this point I would guess that you've hammered the valve into the body and damaged both to the point they will need replaced. Do you have a cocker valve tool? That makes the instalation and removal easier. The valve not lining up origonally was a problem that probably could have been fixed simply, but now I bet its much worse since its been fired withthe valve in wrong. With just the pics and not actually having the marker infront of me its hard to say for sure whats wrong with it. My guess is the valve didn't seat right and when you fired the marker the valve was struck and pushed into the side of the body which is why its now stuck. At this point your best bet would probably be to find and take it to a cocker tech to get it fixed. I have a trained cocker tech who can find and fix things I never would have thought about. So yes, if I were you I'd find a tech.

[skyguy]

where's the jam nut in this whole story?

yeah, valve tool FTW

[mongoose]

Easy fix..................................$5 of regular and a match!!!!

:joke: sorry but i am no help :crazy:

[BigEvil]

Both you and Mongoose need to take a drive up here with your boo-boos so I can remedy them.

[mongoose]

only if you cook us dinner..lol

i think thats a great idea.....as i rip my gun from the box i was about to ship out to u!!!!

[t0nnn]

where's the jam nut in this whole story?

yeah, valve tool FTW

Jam nut is out, I have a valve tool, In the pics i was just showing how the valve isn't lining up right with the set screw hole...I got the valve out the first time i took it apart to replace the o-ring. When I put the valve back in and it didn't line up right I pushed it a little more and it didn't budge much...So I just put the set screw in and re-assembled everything...Which I shouldn't have done :crazy:

I may be shippin this up to you scott with christians emag :wthumpup:

[skyguy]

tonnn, I think the valve isn't sitting right because it doesn't sound like you have a jam nut. The whole point oh the jam nut is to jam it in there good, that set screw in the bottom is really only to keep the exhaust port lined up, it should'nt ever be tightened very hard. This would prolly explain why the valve got stuck too.

Is the big leak you're taking about coming out the barrel? I think it's an issue of having your IVG in too far. There is a difference between having a hard spring in and screwing in your IVG further, when the hammer is in the rest position sitting on the valve stem, there really shouldn't be much pressure on the valve stem, at least not enough to open the valve again.

Finally, the velocity being low should really just be an issue of getting your inline reg dialed in right as has been said. On this note, that superbolt body has a relatively small valve chamber, so it might work out better for you if set it up for a bit higher pressure. This is gonna require a bit lighter valve spring.

As far as getting that valve out, if you can get something in from the back to wiggle the valve loose, then you'll have to open up the front and punch it out.

[t0nnn]

No I do have a Jam nut, But even with it tight it wasn't pushing the valve anymore backward to line up.

I did switch out the springs with a heavy maddmann valve spring and a medium main spring, maybe I should replace them with the stock ones again?

Also my velocity problem was prolly because of my reg, I bought a new detonator and haven't dialed it in yet...So i'll have to do that. I think they're preset at 275 ...crappy part is there's no where to mount a gauge on them so i'll have to just back it out and start from stratch...

[greezypete]

If you want a guage , mount it in the hole that is plugged off in the bottom of your front block. It will still give you the out put pressure of the reg from there.

[skyguy]

If you want a guage , mount it in the hole that is plugged off in the bottom of your front block. It will still give you the out put pressure of the reg from there.

Superbolts are all minis, so that port is where the ASA is.

[t0nnn]

If you want a guage , mount it in the hole that is plugged off in the bottom of your front block. It will still give you the out put pressure of the reg from there.
can't, it's a mini cocker....and I have a WWA mini pump kit on it...no where to mount a gauge

SOOOO I finally got the valve out...destroyed the valve stem ...and found that the lower tube is just full of crap...so once I give it a good clean i'll throw everything back in

My brother has an extra evil valve kit that I can throw in ....any input on that?? I know the stock one is fine (minus the stem), I haven't used an evil valve before so I dunno

[skyguy]

a WWA mini kit, does it look like this? p.s. a valve is a valve, throw it in there

http://i14.tinypic.com/6y3bb7a.jpg

[t0nnn]

yep that's it, is that your's? I want to trade the stock hinge the superbolt comes with for a single trigger though

[t0nnn]

ok, so i'm starting to think this body is a PIECE OF SH*T..The evil valve is doing the same thing, not lining up with the set screw hole (it's actually sitting worse). I even took the o-rings off the original valve and evil valve just to make sure they weren't the problem that the valve wasn't sliding forward anymore. Even tightening the Jam nut isn't helping and believe me it's tight to the point that it won't go any tighter..So i'm baffled right now....does anyone know of these bodies having problems like this?

I want to pump faces and I can't :wall: help me

[skyguy]

you point a flashlight down the back and see if any old o-ring pieces are gunked down in there?

[t0nnn]

yeah there's no o-rings in there. I cleaned the body out very good with alcohol and water, it was full of gook. But it's all clean now

[skyguy]

yeah nvm, i just read back and you already cleaned it out, if the valve isn't leaking from that front seal then you might try just leaving it like that, might just be bad machining but if it seals up tight it don't much matter if the exhaust hole lines up 100%

[t0nnn]

i'll try to put it back in that way..but I did that the first time and after maybe 20 shots I started to get the constant leak. I need to get a new valve stem...The evil valve didn't fit right at all so i'm gonna have to run the stock one which is fine

[Craig Niland]

No I do have a Jam nut, But even with it tight it wasn't pushing the valve anymore backward to line up.

I did switch out the springs with a heavy maddmann valve spring and a medium main spring, maybe I should replace them with the stock ones again?

Also my velocity problem was prolly because of my reg, I bought a new detonator and haven't dialed it in yet...So i'll have to do that. I think they're preset at 275 ...crappy part is there's no where to mount a gauge on them so i'll have to just back it out and start from stratch...


If you put a heavy valve spring in with only a light hammer spring that might have contributed to why you can't get a decent velocity. Try using both a light valve and light hammer spring, I've never missed with this combo. It'll make your trigger pull a lot lighter, shoot with less kick, be easier to recock, and will run sweetspotted at around 200-250 psi.
This is all assuming your valve is correctly installed though.

[Craig Niland]

can't, it's a mini cocker....and I have a WWA mini pump kit on it...no where to mount a gauge

SOOOO I finally got the valve out...destroyed the valve stem ...and found that the lower tube is just full of crap...so once I give it a good clean i'll throw everything back in

My brother has an extra evil valve kit that I can throw in ....any input on that?? I know the stock one is fine (minus the stem), I haven't used an evil valve before so I dunno


Double post FTL, but my bro's 03 has an evil valve, no complaints there, then again I've always been happy with stock valves. And yes I noticed there was a typo on my previous post, you said you were using a medium hammer spring, not a light one. Hopefully everything works out, sounds like you've got a nice sniper on your hands.

[t0nnn]

yeah the springs aren't the problem....the valve just won't sit in place...if the body is crap (which i'm 99.9% it is)...there's not much I can do I don't think